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Discussion: Operation P.R.O.M.
Welcome back! It's time for tonight's discussion for the season four finale, "Operation P.R.O.M.". This episode is special because it's an hour long, so don't turn off the TV at midnight or you'll probably be confused. There will also (likely) be more promos with Jackson & Doc during commercial breaks, so don't skip them or you might miss some fun!
As always you can use these comments for discussion about the episode or The Venture Bros. in general. As such, if you haven't seen the episode yet you might want to stay out since the comments will probably contain spoilers. For those of you sad and without cable the episode will be for sale on Zune and iTunes tomorrow and up for free on Adult Swim Video next Monday.
Also don't forget that you still have plenty of time to enter to win some DVDs signed by Jackson & Doc and make up some hilarious captions to boot.
As always you can use these comments for discussion about the episode or The Venture Bros. in general. As such, if you haven't seen the episode yet you might want to stay out since the comments will probably contain spoilers. For those of you sad and without cable the episode will be for sale on Zune and iTunes tomorrow and up for free on Adult Swim Video next Monday.
Also don't forget that you still have plenty of time to enter to win some DVDs signed by Jackson & Doc and make up some hilarious captions to boot.
- by Doctor X
- (unregistered id: A2DE3BCD74)
There are now Urban Dictionary entries: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rusty+venture
. . . you sick bastards!
--J.D.
. . . you sick bastards!
--J.D.
- by The Mysterious 'H'
- (unregistered id: B7D02EEF34)
There's one for an Action Johnny too:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=action+johnny
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=action+johnny
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
Yeah, sending Kim into rehab and coming out all brainwashed and Christiany sucked, though it was a way to write her out of the show. (There's a lot of Kim art on Deviartart) I think they should have followed their original thought and have Kim become a super-villain, maybe one of Molotov's Blackhearts.
- by Col. Aldus Valor
- (unregistered id: 7B9B0DEDCB)
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
I thought it was odd at the time 24 having a conversation with the dead agents of Monstroso, who didn't realize they were dead. But I think it was a way of saying that 24's ghost is real it's just that if 21 doesn't want to see him anymore, then he goes away.
Speaking of 24's death, It was interesting that the Moppets were scratching off names on 21's list of who killed 24. It makes me think that they were the ones who armed that bomb that killed 24 and that Phantom Limb's claim that there were his double agents might be true,
Speaking of 24's death, It was interesting that the Moppets were scratching off names on 21's list of who killed 24. It makes me think that they were the ones who armed that bomb that killed 24 and that Phantom Limb's claim that there were his double agents might be true,
- by mikeybot
- (unregistered id: E7D22409BF)
Yup, 'Like A Friend' by Pulp featured in that Great Expectations movie with Ethan Hawke
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snouZdW2IWg
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snouZdW2IWg
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
I'm confused by this bit since I thought The Outrider and Trianna's mother lived in the other realm. This makes it look as if they live just down the street or something.
But Outrider is being a douche here, telling someone in great emotional pain to give up and go away. And Dean was right to tell him to F*ck off.
But Outrider is being a douche here, telling someone in great emotional pain to give up and go away. And Dean was right to tell him to F*ck off.
- by Col. Aldus Valor
- (unregistered id: 7B9B0DEDCB)
- by Roscoe
- (unregistered id: EBD462A77A)
I'm sorry, you're complaining because a cartoon had a bunch of drawings of women who turned all Seth Brundle?
It didn't really happen, these aren't real people.....they're not even real actors, they're DRAWINGS on your TV!
-Come on people, I love Venture to death, but step back and take a breath.
It didn't really happen, these aren't real people.....they're not even real actors, they're DRAWINGS on your TV!
-Come on people, I love Venture to death, but step back and take a breath.
- by Jory
- (unregistered id: 9F1235068D)
I'm not 'complaining'. The Blackhearts being given date-rape drugs that turned them into monsters which were then presumably slaughtered is very bad. In spite of her chosen fetish, the look of fear on Princess Tinyfeet's face was unnerving. In spite of my understanding of the show's production, the way almost every female character was seen but not heard was very, very distressing.
(I still dig Mol, though. And I'd contend that the Blackhearts went more Martin Brundle than they did Seth, anyway.)
There is never a one-hundred-percent good reason not to critically assess media we consume, especially when it's media that constantly strives to elevate itself the way The Venture Bros does. I'm sure that Jackson and Doc themselves, regardless of the way they'd feel about my opinions, would resent dismissal of them based on the fact that VB is "just a cartoon".
(I still dig Mol, though. And I'd contend that the Blackhearts went more Martin Brundle than they did Seth, anyway.)
There is never a one-hundred-percent good reason not to critically assess media we consume, especially when it's media that constantly strives to elevate itself the way The Venture Bros does. I'm sure that Jackson and Doc themselves, regardless of the way they'd feel about my opinions, would resent dismissal of them based on the fact that VB is "just a cartoon".
- by Dylan
- (unregistered id: 178A011EE7)
I should probably elaborate, since I'm apparently the only one on your side. "Lighten up, it's just a ______!" is always bullroar. Yes, we know these aren't real people. But it was written by real people, and they decided it wouldn't be at all problematic to drug and slaughter a room of ladies.That's the distressing part. Especially coming from writers that I generally love.
This is what Doc & Jackson get for name dropping Andrea Dworkin and waking up all the feminists.
This is what Doc & Jackson get for name dropping Andrea Dworkin and waking up all the feminists.
- by Pecktacular
- (unregistered id: A5F7DB1C9C)
Um...slaughtering them was never in Doc's plan, he was just as shocked as everyone else when they spit acid and turned in giant flies. And the argument for Doc having done things that are worse or at least equally as bad before stands, if you were going to say something regarding Doc's shaky character you're a couple seasons late. Not that it makes rape/ruffies right, but that sort of thing isn't exactly unexpected from Doc in this series. On the other hand the fact that the women were assassin doesn't really matter since Doc didn't know this and his motivation wasn't based on a kill of be killed philosophy.
Also, on a semi-separate note Doc has a point about spanish fly not being a ruffie. All of the women were conscious and presumably knew what they were doing. No one was passed out about to have amnesia in the morning. They way he described (though in more descriptive terms) it just made them horny. All that being true I'm pretty sure it's still wrong to slip something in someone else's drink so you can get laid.
Also, on a semi-separate note Doc has a point about spanish fly not being a ruffie. All of the women were conscious and presumably knew what they were doing. No one was passed out about to have amnesia in the morning. They way he described (though in more descriptive terms) it just made them horny. All that being true I'm pretty sure it's still wrong to slip something in someone else's drink so you can get laid.
- by The Mysterious 'H'
- (unregistered id: B7D02EEF34)
Just as bad as wearing cologne or something like that. It's all about pheremones.
Plus, it's definitely in Rusty's character to pull something like this. I mean, the guy used Take Back The Night to pick up chicks so a little 'chemical enhancement' is perfectly acceptable by his standards. Also, it's funny and this is ultimately a comedy show.
Plus, it's definitely in Rusty's character to pull something like this. I mean, the guy used Take Back The Night to pick up chicks so a little 'chemical enhancement' is perfectly acceptable by his standards. Also, it's funny and this is ultimately a comedy show.
- by Kub
- (unregistered id: 689FAA9C0E)
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: B50DB16F10)
Yeah that would be really sad. And noone ever said that Hunter didn't look up to Treister, he's Hunter's mentor presumibly. Hunter didn't come just to stab Treister to death, he just didn't want to be hunted like a manimal anymore and he certainly didn't know he would hand over the OSI and shoot himself into space.
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
The theme for the entire season has been growth. Dean swearing at authority is, for him, a sign of growth. As for Hunter caring about Treister, Hunter has actually shown a lot of care for a lot of people, beginning with Brock.
On the otherhand Monarch just blowing off Gary kissing his wife, because they're swingers..... that was out of character.
On the otherhand Monarch just blowing off Gary kissing his wife, because they're swingers..... that was out of character.
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: B50DB16F10)
I feel bad for Gary but he was right. The Monarch just acted like nothing was wrong but when he broke down after 24 left, Dr.O and Jefferson were there to comfort him. Shore Leave helped him actually do stuff. Gary realized that he should be his own man and not the lackey of a douchebag who passes his wife around like a bong and has no regards for the lives of his own men.
- by PromoTheRobot
- (unregistered id: 0B3D50F846)
Drunk when she and Gary had their moment? Yes she was. But she was also very forthcoming to him, doing the "GARY" chant in her cheerleader outfit and all. I guess I had this idea that Sheila was still looking for her prince, but she turned out to be a cold-hearted woman.
But you know what? This is why I'm not writing for VB. I would have had a feel-good happy ending for Gary and Sheila. But Jackson and crew know better. Wasn't this better than some sappy "Officer and a Gentleman" type ending?
But you know what? This is why I'm not writing for VB. I would have had a feel-good happy ending for Gary and Sheila. But Jackson and crew know better. Wasn't this better than some sappy "Officer and a Gentleman" type ending?
- by Azure
- (unregistered id: 6AA335D220)
Agreed. I was saddened by it too, especially since the scenes with 21 were some of the most open we've ever seen her character. Dr. Girlfriend is a very tightly closed book of lies with pictures of also lies. I felt like some of that rare character development for her was taken away with that scene.
Then I watched again and I think you're right, it was the best ending. Just like the scene with Brock and Mol, Gary realized how that the Monarch is a dick and always will be, until he's old and gray or dead. His wife is not the perfect flower Gary put on a pedestal and I think for 21 it's not even so much that she dismissed him as the fact that he knows she could do better, he knows how unhappy she is because she told him so. After all that she's going to stand by her man and never do anything to change either, she has none of the qualities inside that I think 21 imagined she did and her idea of love is impossibly warped.
I think he's as disgusted with the two of them as anything else at the moment.
Then I watched again and I think you're right, it was the best ending. Just like the scene with Brock and Mol, Gary realized how that the Monarch is a dick and always will be, until he's old and gray or dead. His wife is not the perfect flower Gary put on a pedestal and I think for 21 it's not even so much that she dismissed him as the fact that he knows she could do better, he knows how unhappy she is because she told him so. After all that she's going to stand by her man and never do anything to change either, she has none of the qualities inside that I think 21 imagined she did and her idea of love is impossibly warped.
I think he's as disgusted with the two of them as anything else at the moment.
- by Doctor X
- (unregistered id: A2DE3BCD74)
Well, as Doc and Jackson noted in a commentary regarding fans reactions to whenever Dr. Mrs. The MONARCH [!--Ed.] does anything bad: "she's evil!" They are evil. She does not bat an eye when The MONARCH [!--Ed.] describes frying Wonderboy after a post-breakup binge.
The one unifying thing is they are all FAILURES. 21 is, perhaps, realizing this.
The one unifying thing is they are all FAILURES. 21 is, perhaps, realizing this.
- by Iris
- (unregistered id: 7F17C94558)
I feel as though I have just witnessed the most epic thing ever to happen. Ever.
I must say, drunk Dr. O is awesome! I'm very sad that Molotov is probably dead. She's sexy, kicks ass, and perfect for Brock even though they can never be together.
What a great episode!
But what's going to happen to Spinx if Gathers takes over the O.S.I.?
I must say, drunk Dr. O is awesome! I'm very sad that Molotov is probably dead. She's sexy, kicks ass, and perfect for Brock even though they can never be together.
What a great episode!
But what's going to happen to Spinx if Gathers takes over the O.S.I.?
- by Iris
- (unregistered id: 7F17C94558)
That's the thing: SPINX and the OSI have to exist separately, but they both have to exist. The OSI keeps the Guild in check, while SPINX handles all the crazy antagonists with superweapons who don't choose to make a career out of it. I wonder why they could never work together...I mean, they both had a common goal. Sort of. Right? What was SPINX exactly before the OSI took them down?
- by Iris
- (unregistered id: 7F17C94558)
Yeah, what I mean is, I think the Monarch cares a lot more than he is letting on. He has a tendency not to take it well when people leave him so I'm curious as to how this will affect him.
Still, Gary needs to take some time and deal with everything that's happened to him recently. So I think it's a good thing.
Still, Gary needs to take some time and deal with everything that's happened to him recently. So I think it's a good thing.
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
Possibly, but I think he'll just start referring to Gary as "The Traitor" and move on. He gloated about how much Gary improved the efficiency of the Cocoon in Return to Malice; maybe he'll miss that for a bit, but when it comes right down to it the only man in his life is Rusty. An army of loyal henchmen and a working super-cocoon are ultimately meaningless toys.
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
What H said, but also after seeing their completely pathetic attempt to be threatening and the botched smoke screen, I'm more worried that the story arc for The Monarch/Dr. Mrs. The Monarch won't be so much their empire falling apart because Gary left so much as turning into the slapsticky comedy relief. "Oh let's watch these two bumble around for two minutes because they're completely incompetent and have that not tie in at all with 21 quitting!" You know, basically turning them into what the 21/24 role used to serve but without the poetic irony itself actually being funny.
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
That's right, take my dreams of a season 5 and throw them into the jagged seashore rocks at the bottom of the cliff and make me ponder whether that credit line was just a clever way of setting us up for a year or so of consecutively aired reruns.
Kidding, of course. I think it's a good sign that [as] definitely gets that The Venture Bros. is worth holding on to.
Kidding, of course. I think it's a good sign that [as] definitely gets that The Venture Bros. is worth holding on to.
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
Going with the hiatus-before-season-5-production theory, and provided they [as] airs a rerun every Sunday and not skip for one reason or another, that's a little over a year of tiding us over with the reruns (and hopefully merch). Hopefully during that time the Astrobase will take that much needed break and get some rest and be ready to go back into production for season 5. Since production seems to take them about a year, if they take a hiatus, it could be about 2 or 3 years before we see new episodes.
I'm trying to soften the blow in my brain with these inane theories so I won't cry as much later.
I'm trying to soften the blow in my brain with these inane theories so I won't cry as much later.
- by CandyCorn
- (unregistered id: AFAD038EFB)
I had to rewatch that last half a second time, it was so good. Best episode of all.
Also I know some people are sad about Molotov, but even if she stays dead, I don't think I'm really bothered by it. Brock has become a better person over the seasons, watching him end up with someone who was about to slaughter his family and felt no remorse? It would seem kind of messed up for her to be alive and him to forgive that.
Also I know some people are sad about Molotov, but even if she stays dead, I don't think I'm really bothered by it. Brock has become a better person over the seasons, watching him end up with someone who was about to slaughter his family and felt no remorse? It would seem kind of messed up for her to be alive and him to forgive that.
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
I think that would just be Rusty's logical answer to the question any virile man would ask upon walking in the room and seeing Rusty and a bunch of other social rejects tangled in the arms of gorgeous, affectionate women.
"...How di-?"
"Spanish Fly, duh."
"Like I even had to ask!"
"...How di-?"
"Spanish Fly, duh."
"Like I even had to ask!"
- by Chris98vf
- (unregistered id: 6C6A0D6179)
Think of it this way, she was not keeping within the confines of the PROM, she was flirting/making out with Brock and Mol may be the jealous type even though she's with Monstroso. SOOOOO seeing that she was off mission for a little Molotov gave her the choice of going back to work or getting fired on the spot... with a knife...
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
Really?! Adult Swim is starting to swallow up Cartoon Network!
But I can't see them running VB at 9 there's way too much bleeps cursing on that show for 9. I would imagine they'd just bump up KOTH and Family Guy and run more of their lame 15 minute shows after.
As you might guess, outside of VB and Robot Chicken, I think Adult Swim sucks,.
But I can't see them running VB at 9 there's way too much bleeps cursing on that show for 9. I would imagine they'd just bump up KOTH and Family Guy and run more of their lame 15 minute shows after.
As you might guess, outside of VB and Robot Chicken, I think Adult Swim sucks,.
- by mike
- (unregistered id: 4247A88785)
WTF, the monarch-is-a-swinger thing makes absolutely no sense. He's been ridiculously overprotective of his wife for the entire run of the show, constantly jealous over her sitting on some guys lap or phantom limb masturbating on her clothes, and now they're swingers? Not to mention, Gary and the Mrs. kissed due to non-sexual stuff? WTF?
- by Erik
- (unregistered id: EAD30FA361)
They've referenced Monarch and the wife swinging before. It was a throwaway joke in an episode I can't remember, but it didn't come out of nowhere. Besides gary's arc this season wasn't about falling in love with Dr. Girlfriend, it was about finding himself after the death of his best friend.
Loved the episode. It had the mix of hilarious and epic that only the Venture Bros. at it's best can provide. There better be a season 5.
Loved the episode. It had the mix of hilarious and epic that only the Venture Bros. at it's best can provide. There better be a season 5.
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: DA1A2954DF)
- by Azure
- (unregistered id: 88F5584F1D)
He freaked out over Venture and Phantom Limb because he hates those guys. Also, he wasn't there. Guys she had been with before, same.
He believes he was a part of a drunken threesome, he doesn't know that only two of them were drunk and one was unconscious. You saw Dr. Mrs.' face when it first came up, if the Monarch knew what really happened he would not be okay with it.
Sheila has a lot to answer for, damn. If you think about it, she's thrown her share of people under the bus over the series.
He believes he was a part of a drunken threesome, he doesn't know that only two of them were drunk and one was unconscious. You saw Dr. Mrs.' face when it first came up, if the Monarch knew what really happened he would not be okay with it.
Sheila has a lot to answer for, damn. If you think about it, she's thrown her share of people under the bus over the series.
- by Roscoe
- (unregistered id: EBD462A77A)
Okay, seriousely, Who else got the "Size Doc" Joke?
That was totally mentioned in the commentary of S.3. and I totally started busting up right then and there.
What a great finally! what a great season! Man, I'm totally floored. I don't even know where to begin with my praise of this episode. Talk about core stuff!
I really wasn't expecting Molitov to be the masked rookie, what a Perfect twist! We got all the best characters in the show back in this one episod....well Everyone but kim, but she's not even close to a core character.......Oh, but how boss would it be if she came back next season, all Born-Again-Christian and got Hank all bible-thumping, and left Dean as the rebel, trying to act all bad-ass get Triana! That would be pure comedic gold!
That was totally mentioned in the commentary of S.3. and I totally started busting up right then and there.
What a great finally! what a great season! Man, I'm totally floored. I don't even know where to begin with my praise of this episode. Talk about core stuff!
I really wasn't expecting Molitov to be the masked rookie, what a Perfect twist! We got all the best characters in the show back in this one episod....well Everyone but kim, but she's not even close to a core character.......Oh, but how boss would it be if she came back next season, all Born-Again-Christian and got Hank all bible-thumping, and left Dean as the rebel, trying to act all bad-ass get Triana! That would be pure comedic gold!
- by guy
- (unregistered id: AA6A3AF0B9)
man...the stuff with traester was pretty nuts....also holyshit so much has gone DOWN this season. Hatred has his tiny feet back, brock might go back to being a bodyguard, hunter is head of the osi, and dean is now a creepy stalkerrrr.....oh and billy now has a chance at success but that was last episode and who cares about that.
i really loved the hourlong format, i would not complain about that happening more often.
i really loved the hourlong format, i would not complain about that happening more often.
- by Sargent Hatred
- (unregistered id: 5ACC7AAD7D)
YOU PEOPLE
WHY HAS NOBODY WARNED ME ABOUT THIS YET
http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ANDREA+DWORKIN
ANDREA
DWORKIN
HURRRRRRRRRRRGH
WHY HAS NOBODY WARNED ME ABOUT THIS YET
http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ANDREA+DWORKIN
ANDREA
DWORKIN
HURRRRRRRRRRRGH
- by Katie
- (unregistered id: ABB851B7D3)
Here's what Doc had to say on the whole Rusty Venture thing (From a response to a comment on his FB page)
"The joke is that nobody is sure of what a Rusty Venture is. For the sake of the episode's narrative, it was important that Brock's definition ran as the lid for the joke: It's a sad, lonely event, like Rusty himself. All the glorious, and f...oul acts that the others speculate are a Rusty Venture, could never be thematically legitimate. It had to be the act of self abuse that ends with raw flesh and regret. That joke, like many of our jokes, worked to deepen the viewer's understanding of our characters. I know! Gyp! It's supposed to be a throwaway gross-out joke! ...It just wasn't... It was a gross-out joke in deep, unclean water
So there is no correct answer. The Rusty Venture is forever speculation. The best that Urban Dictionary could ask for is a long list of gruesome sex acts, and the explanation Brock gave would have the most thumbs-up next to it."
"The joke is that nobody is sure of what a Rusty Venture is. For the sake of the episode's narrative, it was important that Brock's definition ran as the lid for the joke: It's a sad, lonely event, like Rusty himself. All the glorious, and f...oul acts that the others speculate are a Rusty Venture, could never be thematically legitimate. It had to be the act of self abuse that ends with raw flesh and regret. That joke, like many of our jokes, worked to deepen the viewer's understanding of our characters. I know! Gyp! It's supposed to be a throwaway gross-out joke! ...It just wasn't... It was a gross-out joke in deep, unclean water
So there is no correct answer. The Rusty Venture is forever speculation. The best that Urban Dictionary could ask for is a long list of gruesome sex acts, and the explanation Brock gave would have the most thumbs-up next to it."
- by Darth Jodoc
- (unregistered id: 765AF1C7EF)
Wow. Just... wow.
Really good wrap-up for this season. Noticed it had credits run during the episode, just as in the season 2's "Showdown at Cremation Creek, Part I. And just like the season 2 finale, Brock kept his hair. :D
Mol & Monstroso (or M&M, if you will) may still live, following the same path as Phantom Limb (alive but injured).
Really good wrap-up for this season. Noticed it had credits run during the episode, just as in the season 2's "Showdown at Cremation Creek, Part I. And just like the season 2 finale, Brock kept his hair. :D
Mol & Monstroso (or M&M, if you will) may still live, following the same path as Phantom Limb (alive but injured).
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
This really feels like a series finale. Way too many things were wrapped up. Hunter v. OSI, Sphynx, Brock v. Molotov, 21 v 24 and Hank and Dean v. Hank and Dean. I'm guessing the boys want to take a year or two off, maybe explore an off-broadway muscial. Maybe just sleep for six months.
There was lots of things open for another season. There's the Revenge Society, new deviltry from the Monarch. Will Sgt. Hatred revert to evil now that he has Princess Tinyfeet? Hank and Dean still have a lot of growing up to do, and the whole Trianna thing yet to be resolved.
But I think it's going to be a long wait till Season Five....
There was lots of things open for another season. There's the Revenge Society, new deviltry from the Monarch. Will Sgt. Hatred revert to evil now that he has Princess Tinyfeet? Hank and Dean still have a lot of growing up to do, and the whole Trianna thing yet to be resolved.
But I think it's going to be a long wait till Season Five....
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: DA1A2954DF)
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: DAB49CBA9F)
True, but I think a new team is forming. And I think once Dean gets over Triana she'll join too. But maybe our heros can do more good than Jonas ever could.
Oh and I just noticed that these talks go on alot longer. But I don't mind.
I'm also thinking of doing what I did last thing and writing my own season but unlke the last one that sucked(though eerily had some premontions about what would happen this season) I'm gonna be alot closer to the feel of the show. If I do do it.
Oh and I just noticed that these talks go on alot longer. But I don't mind.
I'm also thinking of doing what I did last thing and writing my own season but unlke the last one that sucked(though eerily had some premontions about what would happen this season) I'm gonna be alot closer to the feel of the show. If I do do it.
- by Rootboy
- (unregistered id: 2935175092)
This felt a lot like a series finale - maybe when they wrote it they weren't sure whether there'd be another season? But there are still some open plot threads, and the credits said "THE VENTURE BROS WILL RETURN", so awesome.
Also, "THE VENTURE BROS WILL RETURN", is, of course, a reference to the line at the end of most Bond movies.
Also, "THE VENTURE BROS WILL RETURN", is, of course, a reference to the line at the end of most Bond movies.
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: DA1A2954DF)
For what it's worth they put "THE VENTURE BROS. WILL RETURN" at the end of the season two finale as well and renewal was a little up in the air for the show at that point as well, though I think Jackson & Doc were confident enough that they'd get it to put that in there (and then they got renewed for two seasons). So I don't think they would throw that around under the pretense that it's just a reference.
From what we've heard basically; they are tired and need a break. Jackson & Doc work like 10 - 18 hour days with weekends, and they have been doing that since season three went into production over two years ago. But both they and AS seem like they want to do more, it's just a question of when. I'd be very surprised if the show didn't return in some form at this point. Also it's worth noting that they are legally probably not able to talk about contracts that are in negotiation, so even if they are working out a deal at this very moment they can't get more specific than they already have.
From what we've heard basically; they are tired and need a break. Jackson & Doc work like 10 - 18 hour days with weekends, and they have been doing that since season three went into production over two years ago. But both they and AS seem like they want to do more, it's just a question of when. I'd be very surprised if the show didn't return in some form at this point. Also it's worth noting that they are legally probably not able to talk about contracts that are in negotiation, so even if they are working out a deal at this very moment they can't get more specific than they already have.
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: DA1A2954DF)
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: B50DB16F10)
Okay ventureroos it's time again for what I did back in season 3:Loose Ends and Unanswered Questions. Now I redid the list since alot of the stuff from last time is no longer vallad or just dropped entirely, but here it is, all of the stuff left for jackson and doc to explore next season. Feel free to add to it.
The Venture Bros:Loose Ends and Unanswered Questions
1) Will Brock rejoin Team Venture or the OSI?
2) What will happen to SPHINX now that Hunter's in charge of the OSI?
3) Are Molotov and Monstroso really dead?
4) What will 21/Gary do now he's quit the Monarch?
4a) Will he join SPHINX/OSI?
4b) What will the Monarch do without him?
5) Will Dean tell his dad he dosen't want to be a Super Scientest, but a Journalist.
6) Will the Moppets ever be discovered as 21's murderers?
7) J.J. and Gargantua 2
8) Will the Captain go back to his old life of Piracy?
9) What happened to Jonas SR?
10) The Revenge Society
11) Does Tracy actually exist?
12) Billy and Pete growing further apart.
13) Is Zero/Henchman 1/ Scott Hall still alive?
14) Will Hank join the OSI/SPHINX?
15) Will the following charicters ever return?
a)The Guymns.
b)Brick Frog
c)Brown Widow
d)Captain Sunshine
16)What will Hunter do with the OSI?
17)Who will take the new postion on The Council of 13?
18)Will Grim Gravy plan another gig?
19)Hankco
20)Triana learning magic.
21)Underland's new regime.
The Venture Bros:Loose Ends and Unanswered Questions
1) Will Brock rejoin Team Venture or the OSI?
2) What will happen to SPHINX now that Hunter's in charge of the OSI?
3) Are Molotov and Monstroso really dead?
4) What will 21/Gary do now he's quit the Monarch?
4a) Will he join SPHINX/OSI?
4b) What will the Monarch do without him?
5) Will Dean tell his dad he dosen't want to be a Super Scientest, but a Journalist.
6) Will the Moppets ever be discovered as 21's murderers?
7) J.J. and Gargantua 2
8) Will the Captain go back to his old life of Piracy?
9) What happened to Jonas SR?
10) The Revenge Society
11) Does Tracy actually exist?
12) Billy and Pete growing further apart.
13) Is Zero/Henchman 1/ Scott Hall still alive?
14) Will Hank join the OSI/SPHINX?
15) Will the following charicters ever return?
a)The Guymns.
b)Brick Frog
c)Brown Widow
d)Captain Sunshine
16)What will Hunter do with the OSI?
17)Who will take the new postion on The Council of 13?
18)Will Grim Gravy plan another gig?
19)Hankco
20)Triana learning magic.
21)Underland's new regime.
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: DA1A2954DF)
Re: 21. It seems like he's going to join SPHINX in some capacity. He seemed happy to get to do stuff with them and really it's kind of funny that he just wants to do his thing rather than be a bad guy. Shoreleave's "sure you are" when he said he was the bad guy was telling, I think. I also feel like he's done with 24. He seems relieved in some capacity that he wasn't being haunted but rather (seemingly) so guilty about 24's death (and perhaps his atitude pre-season 4) that it manifested as the ghost of 24.
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
Also, I fail to agree with #12. Silent Partners seemed to set us up for something, as did The Invisible Hand of Fate in Season 3, but wouldn't ya know it, by the next episode everything's always back to normal with these two. I imagine there's a plethora of off-screen conversations where they always end up resolving the conflict.
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
So many questions and I'm supposed to be at work....
1. - I assume Brock returns to the Venture compound but #4 raises an interesting idea, that Gary will be the new bodyguards while Brock stays with OSI and maybe mentor's Gary.
2. - Sphinx looked to be a protestant arm of OSI so now that Hunter's in charge they don't need Sphinx anymore. Besides Endzone broke the mothership.
3. - Nobody really dies in the Venture Brothers. I assume like Thelma and Louise they just bounced! (And explaination floated as a way to make a T&L sequel.)
7. Gargantua @ seems like D&J's answer to getting Jonas, Jr out of the way. He'll probably be working on the space station for the rest of the series. Unless they need him for a story, of course.
9. - Just as Rusty's mother never seems to be mentioned, he's father death could have been natural causes but I tend to suspect it was ORB/Guild related.
14. - There seemed to be a concerted effort to have Hank flunk out of his Sphinx try-outs so I'm pretty sure he won't be allowed to join OSI later.
15. - Dr. Quymm, I secretly suspect is Rusty's half-sister so she could return as such but I doubt it. "I'd love to see Brick Frog again, maybe he'll start henching with the Monarch. Brown Widow and Cap Sunshine and Sgt. Hatred I couldn't care less about.
20. - There is a lot of potential here but D&J .... um .... it's not gay enough for The Venture Brothers.
And I'd better go get some asbestos underwear......
1. - I assume Brock returns to the Venture compound but #4 raises an interesting idea, that Gary will be the new bodyguards while Brock stays with OSI and maybe mentor's Gary.
2. - Sphinx looked to be a protestant arm of OSI so now that Hunter's in charge they don't need Sphinx anymore. Besides Endzone broke the mothership.
3. - Nobody really dies in the Venture Brothers. I assume like Thelma and Louise they just bounced! (And explaination floated as a way to make a T&L sequel.)
7. Gargantua @ seems like D&J's answer to getting Jonas, Jr out of the way. He'll probably be working on the space station for the rest of the series. Unless they need him for a story, of course.
9. - Just as Rusty's mother never seems to be mentioned, he's father death could have been natural causes but I tend to suspect it was ORB/Guild related.
14. - There seemed to be a concerted effort to have Hank flunk out of his Sphinx try-outs so I'm pretty sure he won't be allowed to join OSI later.
15. - Dr. Quymm, I secretly suspect is Rusty's half-sister so she could return as such but I doubt it. "I'd love to see Brick Frog again, maybe he'll start henching with the Monarch. Brown Widow and Cap Sunshine and Sgt. Hatred I couldn't care less about.
20. - There is a lot of potential here but D&J .... um .... it's not gay enough for The Venture Brothers.
And I'd better go get some asbestos underwear......
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: B50DB16F10)
I'm not gonna flame you. And yes i'm writing my own season but unlike last time it's not... I already covered this. Second do you mean dungeons and dragons, which while I don't play it is not gay, and really using gay as an insult term? But nonethelsess you do raise some good points.
- by Patrick Cafferty
- (unregistered id: F38AF8B340)
WOW... just, WOW... I have been watching VB on tv since a good friend of mine made me sit through the season 2 premiere... so waiting for the third season was like 2 years of purgatory. At least Im used to it though. But I hope the lack of wait between seasons 3 and 4 didnt make me soft... UGH... TWO FRIGGIN YEARS UNTIL SEASON 5 (if there even is one!)
As far as season 4 goes... its by far my favorite, and thats not fanboy lip service either... I never thought theyd top season 2 until I saw 3, and same goes with 4. That tells me (and probably others too) its the sign of a quality show, that the latest is the greatest. Cant wait til season 5, because I know I say this every time, but... I dont think they can top season 4.
Little bummed out about the lack of limb (he and monarch are my favs) but the monarch totally Pwning Gary was amazing. What was 21 thinking? He knew sheila wouldnt leave her man, was he just trying to get her in trouble or punk out the monarch? IDK, but monarch telling him what was up and that he meant nothing to either of them was pretty ruthless and funny.
Sorry about the epic-long post. I guess Ill hear from most of you when season 5 looms closer, until then stay gold and GO TEAM VENTURE!!!
As far as season 4 goes... its by far my favorite, and thats not fanboy lip service either... I never thought theyd top season 2 until I saw 3, and same goes with 4. That tells me (and probably others too) its the sign of a quality show, that the latest is the greatest. Cant wait til season 5, because I know I say this every time, but... I dont think they can top season 4.
Little bummed out about the lack of limb (he and monarch are my favs) but the monarch totally Pwning Gary was amazing. What was 21 thinking? He knew sheila wouldnt leave her man, was he just trying to get her in trouble or punk out the monarch? IDK, but monarch telling him what was up and that he meant nothing to either of them was pretty ruthless and funny.
Sorry about the epic-long post. I guess Ill hear from most of you when season 5 looms closer, until then stay gold and GO TEAM VENTURE!!!
- by Dave
- (unregistered id: 0DF977F0A0)
excellent (from time to time a wee bit too busy) series finale.
like a lot you you people already pointed out: it ties up the previous seasons in way that they really could call it quits right here and now. which would be really really sad, but would at least leave us with 4 amazing seasons of VB, with no such lapses like season of LOST. saying: I could really see the series end here, but I'd rather like to watch a 5th season some day not too far away.
and even tho I do thinks that this has been the best hour of anamitaion film in quite some time , I'm gonna have to rewatch it to see if I think it's the best VB episode ever (right now I prefer Showdown at Cremation Creek + Shadowman 9).
PS: not sure whether I liked the "Rusty Venture" running gag or thought it was just disgustintg or maybe even both of it. it was prettynasty, but I had to laugh pretty hard, admittedly ...
like a lot you you people already pointed out: it ties up the previous seasons in way that they really could call it quits right here and now. which would be really really sad, but would at least leave us with 4 amazing seasons of VB, with no such lapses like season of LOST. saying: I could really see the series end here, but I'd rather like to watch a 5th season some day not too far away.
and even tho I do thinks that this has been the best hour of anamitaion film in quite some time , I'm gonna have to rewatch it to see if I think it's the best VB episode ever (right now I prefer Showdown at Cremation Creek + Shadowman 9).
PS: not sure whether I liked the "Rusty Venture" running gag or thought it was just disgustintg or maybe even both of it. it was prettynasty, but I had to laugh pretty hard, admittedly ...
- by Donkiku
- (unregistered id: 5A2D42F38E)
Am I the only one not happy enough with this season's finale? I mean, The Sphinx parts and Gary's story were top but the Prom thing just didn't do it for me. The whole Rusty Venture thing was too long I think. I laughed the first time they mentioned it but then it was like "here we go again".
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: DA1A2954DF)
Yeah I think they spent too long on the Rusty Venture joke too, though I still thought it was funny, I just felt that it went on longer than it needed to. Regardless that was like 1 minute in like 45 mins (after commercials) so it wasn't too big of a deal. Subsequent callbacks to it I didn't mind, just the initial conversation about it I felt went too long.
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: DAB49CBA9F)
I liked the prom thing was great and the rusty venture thing was far funnier than that whole Mornful Tits thing they did in Any Which Way But Zeus. But I do agree the callbacks were better.
And I do think the finale was a bit Anti-Climatic. But it was still amazing. I loved the prom, it was very entertaining but I thought they could of done more. And while we're on the subject I DID NOT LIKE the dean and triana thing. Him acting jelous was fine and Trina was waving it in his face and then acted like nothing was wrong. But I thought we were over this.
And I do think the finale was a bit Anti-Climatic. But it was still amazing. I loved the prom, it was very entertaining but I thought they could of done more. And while we're on the subject I DID NOT LIKE the dean and triana thing. Him acting jelous was fine and Trina was waving it in his face and then acted like nothing was wrong. But I thought we were over this.
- by mr c
- (unregistered id: A1D7856319)
by the time they got to the guild guys it was going too far, but the rest was pretty great. It seems that sometimes they don't know when to quit with jokes- this and some of the Sgt Hatred material in the first half of the season had that "alright already" quality after 4 or five times.
- by mr c
- (unregistered id: A1D7856319)
holy cow! Well that was something! I am really glad at the way they managed to pull so many storylines together in such a silly and loving way. The only storyline that was left out was Phantom Limb, which makes sense as something for the OSI to face off against next season.
Key highlights for me- The 'Rusty Venture" debate, particularly Col. Gentlemen and his dog, Dean and Hank cussing, Hank trying to date the Mailwoman previoulsy mentioned, and Shallow Gravy.
Some sweet moments of emotional depth not seen before in this show before-
Hunter and Treister honoring one another at the end, Gary breaking down and getting a group hug from Orpheus and Jefferson-
And then Brock's scene at the end- Holy Cow! that was great. I mean I feel like as this season has gone on they have been showing us more of a vulnerable side of Brock, like he looks older and not quite who he used to be physically. The last scene almost had me tearing up with him running to the garage to stop the assassins (by the way was Mol making that up or did the spanish fly kick in and override their orders?) really wondering if some of these characters I love could be dead by the time he gets there, real concern, not mention the great use of music helped.
one last thing-Man didn't the Mr and Mrs the Monarch come off as so shallow and empty and cold and unlikeable more than ever- I mean usually find them hilarious, but tonight by contrast to all the great character development they seemed fairly gross and disgusting.
Key highlights for me- The 'Rusty Venture" debate, particularly Col. Gentlemen and his dog, Dean and Hank cussing, Hank trying to date the Mailwoman previoulsy mentioned, and Shallow Gravy.
Some sweet moments of emotional depth not seen before in this show before-
Hunter and Treister honoring one another at the end, Gary breaking down and getting a group hug from Orpheus and Jefferson-
And then Brock's scene at the end- Holy Cow! that was great. I mean I feel like as this season has gone on they have been showing us more of a vulnerable side of Brock, like he looks older and not quite who he used to be physically. The last scene almost had me tearing up with him running to the garage to stop the assassins (by the way was Mol making that up or did the spanish fly kick in and override their orders?) really wondering if some of these characters I love could be dead by the time he gets there, real concern, not mention the great use of music helped.
one last thing-Man didn't the Mr and Mrs the Monarch come off as so shallow and empty and cold and unlikeable more than ever- I mean usually find them hilarious, but tonight by contrast to all the great character development they seemed fairly gross and disgusting.
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: DAB49CBA9F)
I need you help. I've decided to write the season but the problem is I can't decide on the format. On one hand the regular, novel like fan fic format allows me to get it on Fanficiton.net and get more exposure but the script fic format makes it much easier to write and makes the dialouge flow easier. What do you guys think? and do you know other ways I could distribute it?
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: DAB49CBA9F)
If anyones still out there: here's both versions of the first scene. Gimme feed back.
THE MONARCHS COCOON
Gary was packing up his stuff and was happy. Happy to finally be done with the Monarch. What was next, he didn't know but Gary felt the best he had in months. Gary was on a high when he noticed the suspect list for 24's murder. He would of just tossed it aside but he noticed 2 things:All of the names were crossed off, and the monarchs name was added. "Well what do you know, It looks like the trail just went warm again." Gary said with a hint of entusiam. Gary tucked the note inside his higlander jacket and proceded to continue packing. "I'll get back to this later, I wanna get out of here before the Monarch get's back." He proceded to grab the last of his things as he exited the cocoon. But as Gary entred the Hangar to take his rental car out of here, he saw all of the Henchman standing around. "If you want to stop me, go ahead and try." Gary said, trying to sound badass as he could, but his voice cracked a bit. But the henchman said nothing. They merely saluted, all of them at once. Gary saluted back as he left his home for over 20 years. He left the cocoon as he looked unsure. "Well 21... I mean Gary, what now?" he said to himself.
That was the prose version
This is the script version:
Scene 1:You'll Never Get Rid of Me
(Gary/21 is packing up his things as he prepares to leave the cocoon forever. He's weraing a brown duster and jeans, civilian wear.)
Gary:Well guess this is it. Can't say i'll miss this....
(Gary looks over the where the Lazarus Project list should be.)
Gary:Someone stole it! That means... no no. You promised yourself you wouldn't.
24's Voice:Wouldn't come back?
(24's ghost appears)
Gary:No no I got rid of you. I GOT RID OF YOU!
(the scene melts as 24's visage twists into the Monarchs)
The Monarch:You'll never get rid of me 21! Never Never!
(We see Gary awaken in a cold sweat in his mothers basement. He's visably shaken.)
Gary:Another nightmare this is getting rediculous.
(shows Gandalf in bed next to him)
Gary:Awww dammit. I'm still dreaming!
Dr.Girlfreind(As Gandalf morphs into her):Are you sure
(She kisses Gary but he turns away.)
Gary:Given the fact you were just Gandalf the Grey 2 seconds ago, yeah I am.
(Dr.Girlfreind get's angry and transforms into 24, who then turns into frighting zombie version of 24.)
24:WHY DID YOU FORGET! WHY DID YOU FORGET!
Gary:I didn't I didn't I didn't!
(Cut to Gary's rpp,, Gary is in his bed muttering in his sleep....)
Gary:I didn't I didin't I didin't
(Gary's Mom yells)
Gary's Mom:GARY DID YOU HAVE ANOTHER NIGHTMARE?
(Gary wakes up, but still has his eyes closed)
Gary:Yeah mom. Just go back to bed.
Gary's Mom:Well keep it down in there. I"m trying to sleep. One of us has to work tommorow
Gary:You got it mom. "Sigh" I have got to solve 21's murder. I owe him that much.
Gary's Mom:GARY!
Gary:WHAT NOW MOM?
Gary's Mom:LADY'S WINING CAN YOU TAKE HER OUT?
(Gary sighs)
(Beat)
Gary's Mom:WAS THAT A YES?
(Openining Titles)
THE MONARCHS COCOON
Gary was packing up his stuff and was happy. Happy to finally be done with the Monarch. What was next, he didn't know but Gary felt the best he had in months. Gary was on a high when he noticed the suspect list for 24's murder. He would of just tossed it aside but he noticed 2 things:All of the names were crossed off, and the monarchs name was added. "Well what do you know, It looks like the trail just went warm again." Gary said with a hint of entusiam. Gary tucked the note inside his higlander jacket and proceded to continue packing. "I'll get back to this later, I wanna get out of here before the Monarch get's back." He proceded to grab the last of his things as he exited the cocoon. But as Gary entred the Hangar to take his rental car out of here, he saw all of the Henchman standing around. "If you want to stop me, go ahead and try." Gary said, trying to sound badass as he could, but his voice cracked a bit. But the henchman said nothing. They merely saluted, all of them at once. Gary saluted back as he left his home for over 20 years. He left the cocoon as he looked unsure. "Well 21... I mean Gary, what now?" he said to himself.
That was the prose version
This is the script version:
Scene 1:You'll Never Get Rid of Me
(Gary/21 is packing up his things as he prepares to leave the cocoon forever. He's weraing a brown duster and jeans, civilian wear.)
Gary:Well guess this is it. Can't say i'll miss this....
(Gary looks over the where the Lazarus Project list should be.)
Gary:Someone stole it! That means... no no. You promised yourself you wouldn't.
24's Voice:Wouldn't come back?
(24's ghost appears)
Gary:No no I got rid of you. I GOT RID OF YOU!
(the scene melts as 24's visage twists into the Monarchs)
The Monarch:You'll never get rid of me 21! Never Never!
(We see Gary awaken in a cold sweat in his mothers basement. He's visably shaken.)
Gary:Another nightmare this is getting rediculous.
(shows Gandalf in bed next to him)
Gary:Awww dammit. I'm still dreaming!
Dr.Girlfreind(As Gandalf morphs into her):Are you sure
(She kisses Gary but he turns away.)
Gary:Given the fact you were just Gandalf the Grey 2 seconds ago, yeah I am.
(Dr.Girlfreind get's angry and transforms into 24, who then turns into frighting zombie version of 24.)
24:WHY DID YOU FORGET! WHY DID YOU FORGET!
Gary:I didn't I didn't I didn't!
(Cut to Gary's rpp,, Gary is in his bed muttering in his sleep....)
Gary:I didn't I didin't I didin't
(Gary's Mom yells)
Gary's Mom:GARY DID YOU HAVE ANOTHER NIGHTMARE?
(Gary wakes up, but still has his eyes closed)
Gary:Yeah mom. Just go back to bed.
Gary's Mom:Well keep it down in there. I"m trying to sleep. One of us has to work tommorow
Gary:You got it mom. "Sigh" I have got to solve 21's murder. I owe him that much.
Gary's Mom:GARY!
Gary:WHAT NOW MOM?
Gary's Mom:LADY'S WINING CAN YOU TAKE HER OUT?
(Gary sighs)
(Beat)
Gary's Mom:WAS THAT A YES?
(Openining Titles)
- by optimus divisible by 2
- (unregistered id: E013296511)
I prefer novel-like when writing, just because I find it hard to keep a dialogue once I wrote it. If I feel it's funny when I wrote it, I usually don't find it funny after a read or two or find a funnier way to get through the scene later, and it's easier to change a sentence describing the conversation than the conversation itself. Both of your scenes are great, particularly the second which has more vivid imagery.
Either way, it's hard to imagine if Gary continues down the path to solving 24's death, the monarch's name on the list has to put him back on the hunt in some capacity, especially since whatever he decides to do now he'll have to run into them again at somepoint. If he finally did put it behind him, then 24's gone forever, since the monarch DEFINETLY won't care enough to pursue who did it or even to get Gary back. The monarch's empire is crumbling, and how he picks up after Gary leaves may see him demoted from Venture's arch. If he can get past his ill will, maybe join the Revenge Society to arch Venture with them or get back at the Guild for demoting him.
Either way, it's hard to imagine if Gary continues down the path to solving 24's death, the monarch's name on the list has to put him back on the hunt in some capacity, especially since whatever he decides to do now he'll have to run into them again at somepoint. If he finally did put it behind him, then 24's gone forever, since the monarch DEFINETLY won't care enough to pursue who did it or even to get Gary back. The monarch's empire is crumbling, and how he picks up after Gary leaves may see him demoted from Venture's arch. If he can get past his ill will, maybe join the Revenge Society to arch Venture with them or get back at the Guild for demoting him.
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: B50DB16F10)
My plan is very simple:I decided to do the novel thing. I think it works better. But I do plan to drop the nightmare thing, that made no sense. And as for the murder investigation thing that's on the side, Gary's finding a new life but figures he has to put the old one to rest. Meanwhile expect much more this season.
- by Bonzo the Fifth
- (unregistered id: 48FB303CE9)
Well, it would seem another season of the Venture Brothers is once again behind us.... it's really interesting how these seasons have played out so far: Season 1 seemed to set out the pieces for our core group and was largely introductory for the show, giving us some superficial setups for the characters. While Season 1 in retrospect, seems like the clunkiest season, with more than its share of misfires over the course of it, it does a good job, also in retrospect, in setting the stage for the show of these characters who, while definitely subversive (as befits a show of such deconstructive, postmodern magnitude), are nonetheless rather superficial. They live in a rut, doing the same kind of stuff day in, day out. The boys go on adventures, Dr. Venture pops his pills and whiles like a child, the Monarch takes a crap on the lawn, etc. etc. In many ways, it can seem just as formulaic as the very things the show was meant to thematically lampoon in the first place. Looking back, though, I want to think that this was intentional, or at least, was genius in hindsight, as it works for the story as a whole to see the stagnation of this world of failure and tarnished accomplishment and begin to watch it change before us as things take a new direction toward the end of the season.
Season 2 started us on the track of exploring who these people 'were' in greater detail, even as it laid the seeds for developments that would resonate from that point forward (Brock's growing frustration and existential crisis regarding his bodyguarding role, the Monarch's rebuilding of his life post-Dr. Girlfriend that came full circle--along with the associate promotions of 21 and 24 to almost main character status, the titular Venture twins making progress in their road to maturity after waking up from being clones, etc)... The characters, while grown since season 1, are definitely still rather true to their roots, just more fully fleshed out, and on the verge of sprouting in new and interesting directions...
Season 3 accomplished the seemingly impossible task of both extensively mining the past (something like half the episodes were flashback heavy) and pushing toward the future. The world became more real, with new characters suddenly beginning to achieve prominence, and older supporting characters now gaining new respect. Season 3 is when VB became and ensemble piece, where whole episodes could be carried by the supporting cast with little to no involvement with the Venture clique. And what's more: We liked it. We cared about these people, and the way their lives seemed to be continually intertwining with one another in new and ever more ridiculous ways... culminating in one of the more explosive finale's I've seen in recent memory, which changed the game fundamentally (the clones being destroyed, Brock quitting, 24 dying, etc.)
Which brings us to Season 4... the season of changes... really this could almost be considered two different seasons, thematically speaking Season 4.0 and 4.5. Season 4.0 was... interesting, most especially in that it seemed to go out of its way to distance itself from some of the excesses of Season 3: almost no flashbacks, and a moderate undoing of some of the more earth shattering revelations of late season 3 (the ORB being a dud, Hunter coming right back to the good guys after seemingly betraying everyone at the end of Season 3, 24's ghost, etc), even as major changes were happening in other places (21's sudden badassery, renewed focus on the maturity and growing independence of the Venture twins, Brock's new life in SPHINX, Rusty seemingly to finally be getting over his crappy childhood, even occasionally being an actual father to his children, or showing a bit of the steel that the younger Rusty could never have mustered...
4.5 is where we're beginning to see the payoff for these seasons of slow burning character development... Hank and Dean both got their own solo episodes, we got to see Gary/21's character finally growing tired of his stagnant position in the Monarch's ranks, the possible end of the OSI/GoCI hegemony with the full implementation of their rival groups, SPHINX and The Revenge Society, White and Billy reaching an emotional crossroads in their relationship and Rusty, in his own, narcissistic way, being a caring parent in actually opening up about his sons and trying to actually do right by them... in fact, my only complaint about 4.5 has been the treatment of the Monarch, as it seems the show has, for some reason, lost it's way with him, making him just spitefully crazy instead of having anything like a character arc anymore, which is sad, as some of the stronger arcs of the show have been about his development as a more proper and rounded villian. To see him now almost feels like Season 1 Monarch, only more out and open with his "extracurricular" depravity. The Monarch is, ironically, at his best when he's NOT hounding Rusty. Go figure...
Anyway, thes
Season 2 started us on the track of exploring who these people 'were' in greater detail, even as it laid the seeds for developments that would resonate from that point forward (Brock's growing frustration and existential crisis regarding his bodyguarding role, the Monarch's rebuilding of his life post-Dr. Girlfriend that came full circle--along with the associate promotions of 21 and 24 to almost main character status, the titular Venture twins making progress in their road to maturity after waking up from being clones, etc)... The characters, while grown since season 1, are definitely still rather true to their roots, just more fully fleshed out, and on the verge of sprouting in new and interesting directions...
Season 3 accomplished the seemingly impossible task of both extensively mining the past (something like half the episodes were flashback heavy) and pushing toward the future. The world became more real, with new characters suddenly beginning to achieve prominence, and older supporting characters now gaining new respect. Season 3 is when VB became and ensemble piece, where whole episodes could be carried by the supporting cast with little to no involvement with the Venture clique. And what's more: We liked it. We cared about these people, and the way their lives seemed to be continually intertwining with one another in new and ever more ridiculous ways... culminating in one of the more explosive finale's I've seen in recent memory, which changed the game fundamentally (the clones being destroyed, Brock quitting, 24 dying, etc.)
Which brings us to Season 4... the season of changes... really this could almost be considered two different seasons, thematically speaking Season 4.0 and 4.5. Season 4.0 was... interesting, most especially in that it seemed to go out of its way to distance itself from some of the excesses of Season 3: almost no flashbacks, and a moderate undoing of some of the more earth shattering revelations of late season 3 (the ORB being a dud, Hunter coming right back to the good guys after seemingly betraying everyone at the end of Season 3, 24's ghost, etc), even as major changes were happening in other places (21's sudden badassery, renewed focus on the maturity and growing independence of the Venture twins, Brock's new life in SPHINX, Rusty seemingly to finally be getting over his crappy childhood, even occasionally being an actual father to his children, or showing a bit of the steel that the younger Rusty could never have mustered...
4.5 is where we're beginning to see the payoff for these seasons of slow burning character development... Hank and Dean both got their own solo episodes, we got to see Gary/21's character finally growing tired of his stagnant position in the Monarch's ranks, the possible end of the OSI/GoCI hegemony with the full implementation of their rival groups, SPHINX and The Revenge Society, White and Billy reaching an emotional crossroads in their relationship and Rusty, in his own, narcissistic way, being a caring parent in actually opening up about his sons and trying to actually do right by them... in fact, my only complaint about 4.5 has been the treatment of the Monarch, as it seems the show has, for some reason, lost it's way with him, making him just spitefully crazy instead of having anything like a character arc anymore, which is sad, as some of the stronger arcs of the show have been about his development as a more proper and rounded villian. To see him now almost feels like Season 1 Monarch, only more out and open with his "extracurricular" depravity. The Monarch is, ironically, at his best when he's NOT hounding Rusty. Go figure...
Anyway, thes
- by Dave
- (unregistered id: 882803E594)
now here's something I didn't like in season 4:
The Monarch and Dr. Mrs. The Monarch. They spend so much time building him up as a likeable antagonist in previous seasons ... and this season they nearly dropped all that and just turned them into these malevolent evil-doing cameos. not good. The Monarch always has been my favourite character, and I was disappointed he wasn't really in the finale at all.
I loved the story arc around S.P.H.I.N.X. (yes yes, alright: "sphinx!") and O.S.I. and I loved to see how Gary grew from being the fat nerd next to 24 to being a real warrior and all (also: the more emotional parts of the finale) ... but that whole 24s death thing didn't do for me, I would have rather done with a real solution on whodunnit.
that being said, I probably take the whole show too seriously by now ... it's supposed to be fun, right?
The Monarch and Dr. Mrs. The Monarch. They spend so much time building him up as a likeable antagonist in previous seasons ... and this season they nearly dropped all that and just turned them into these malevolent evil-doing cameos. not good. The Monarch always has been my favourite character, and I was disappointed he wasn't really in the finale at all.
I loved the story arc around S.P.H.I.N.X. (yes yes, alright: "sphinx!") and O.S.I. and I loved to see how Gary grew from being the fat nerd next to 24 to being a real warrior and all (also: the more emotional parts of the finale) ... but that whole 24s death thing didn't do for me, I would have rather done with a real solution on whodunnit.
that being said, I probably take the whole show too seriously by now ... it's supposed to be fun, right?
- by James(MonkeyMan)
- (unregistered id: CFD8CD3D85)
Okay, we did get a lot of build up of character as far as The Monarch is concerned. The build up we received however showed how much of a douche-bag The Monarch really is, he threw out his long time lover based on her history even though he knew of it (he gained this knowledge when he wooed her in 'Shadowman No. 9'), he constantly neglected his henchmen throughout his career as an Arch (especially his two best men as declared by him in 'Now Museum, now you don't'), and his own vendetta against his arch has never been fully explained which really tells us that he hates Venture just because he doesn't like his face. Monarch is a dick, always has been, always will be; as far as Dr. Girlfriend goes... play 'Stand by your Man'.
- by Dave
- (unregistered id: 882803E594)
that may be so, but he also always had his likeable traits, which -besides his megalomania and egoism- made him a rather deep character. somehow they abandoned that whole Monarch angle (after giving us interesting insights into his life) without really giving the character any closure. like we still don't know why he hates Rusty so much. I just felt a severe lack of Monrach throughout season 4, even though I KNOW that we had our fair share of his story in season 2 and 3. just a Monarch fanboi complaining, nothing more.
Also I felt kinda cheated with that whole "Mol suddenly turns up just to die" move. I hope she's not dead ... Brock and her deserve each other.
the episode was fabulous, sure ... but I had the feeling that it was too buy in some parts, and then again wasted too much screen time on elaborate throwaway jokes on the other hand. the pacing was off ... I'd say.
Also I felt kinda cheated with that whole "Mol suddenly turns up just to die" move. I hope she's not dead ... Brock and her deserve each other.
the episode was fabulous, sure ... but I had the feeling that it was too buy in some parts, and then again wasted too much screen time on elaborate throwaway jokes on the other hand. the pacing was off ... I'd say.
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
On the contrary, I admire that Brock has come to realize how he really sees Molotov. He's grown out of her and realized he's not amused with the games anymore much in the same way he realized he was no longer amused with the game of playing secret agent by OSI's rules.
He tried to have a very raw, honest moment with her and she decided she was going to threaten his friends and kill herself if the only other option was letting him win. She may or may not be dead, but even if she's not, Brock's not going to fall back into the game because he knows that ultimately Molotov only cares about herself and a relationship can't function on that.
He tried to have a very raw, honest moment with her and she decided she was going to threaten his friends and kill herself if the only other option was letting him win. She may or may not be dead, but even if she's not, Brock's not going to fall back into the game because he knows that ultimately Molotov only cares about herself and a relationship can't function on that.
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
My feeling is that they went too far in season 3 making the Monarch some kind of married suburbanite. A villain living in a gated community, attending houseparties and so on. So I think in season 4 they were way overboard in making the Monarch a badass.
As for taking the show "too seriously" - It's Art it has a higher Reality than reality (Plato's cave and all that). If we can't take a show seriously then it has no internal consistency. No truth. No beauty.
As for taking the show "too seriously" - It's Art it has a higher Reality than reality (Plato's cave and all that). If we can't take a show seriously then it has no internal consistency. No truth. No beauty.
- by Morpa
- (unregistered id: 27223E7E3A)
Anyone else think that Torrid might be dead? When Al first called up Watch to get an explanation for a "Rusty Venture", Watch buts in with, "You?! I told you that we're not responsible for arches terminated by a third party." Was this line meant for Al or was another caller talking with Watch before he started speaking with Al?
- by Joey Michaels
- (unregistered id: EEF0165588)
- by Joey Michaels
- (unregistered id: EEF0165588)
- by Joey Michaels
- (unregistered id: EEF0165588)
Anybody else catch the little call out to "Baby Got Back" when Shore Leave shot Gary's wings?
"Unh, double up, unh unh!"
Also, and this has probably been beaten to death in the comments for The Silent Partners already, Shore Leave's repetition of "Sphinx" turns out to be a call back to "Pinstripes and Poltergeists." Whenever anyone in that episode said Sphinx, unseen background singers said Sphinx.
Finally, I was sad to see the Conjecture Cycle go, though amused that it died at the same split in the road that Billy and Pete avoided in "The Diving Bell v The Butter Glider."
"Unh, double up, unh unh!"
Also, and this has probably been beaten to death in the comments for The Silent Partners already, Shore Leave's repetition of "Sphinx" turns out to be a call back to "Pinstripes and Poltergeists." Whenever anyone in that episode said Sphinx, unseen background singers said Sphinx.
Finally, I was sad to see the Conjecture Cycle go, though amused that it died at the same split in the road that Billy and Pete avoided in "The Diving Bell v The Butter Glider."
- by Joey Michaels
- (unregistered id: EEF0165588)
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: DA1A2954DF)
- by Joey Michaels
- (unregistered id: EEF0165588)
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: DA1A2954DF)
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
Hey, Mike? I wrote a comment, but when I hit "post," the comment didn't post and the url for this article had changed, "?spammer" was added to the end. It let me post the comment on a second try, but is there something I am/was doing wrong? I did go ahead and check the comment guidelines, but I certainly wasn't violating any of the posted rules. It was a reply to 'user' Dave a few posts up.
Am I posting too much or something?
Am I posting too much or something?
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: F7613128EC)
- by Azure
- (unregistered id: 88F5584F1D)
Ahem. Let me try again.
Dr. Mrs, what is her deal? She's a tightly closed book of lies and pictures of also lies. We know nothing about her save her first name. Her moments with Gary in AS seemed to be the most honest and definitely the most open we've ever seen her. But as of this episode it seems like it was all for nothing. Has she totally resigned herself to this life?
The Monarch thought he was in a threesome and she was in no rush to correct him. Obviously it would've gone badly, but it stung to see her let Gary down like that. Not in a romantic way as much as like his idealized version of her was shattered. Is that really who she is? Is she really just a bad person? She seems to have a conscience, sometimes. Who knows. Does anyone in the series really know Dr. Girlfriend, other than Dr. Girlfriend?
Talk amongst yourselves.
Dr. Mrs, what is her deal? She's a tightly closed book of lies and pictures of also lies. We know nothing about her save her first name. Her moments with Gary in AS seemed to be the most honest and definitely the most open we've ever seen her. But as of this episode it seems like it was all for nothing. Has she totally resigned herself to this life?
The Monarch thought he was in a threesome and she was in no rush to correct him. Obviously it would've gone badly, but it stung to see her let Gary down like that. Not in a romantic way as much as like his idealized version of her was shattered. Is that really who she is? Is she really just a bad person? She seems to have a conscience, sometimes. Who knows. Does anyone in the series really know Dr. Girlfriend, other than Dr. Girlfriend?
Talk amongst yourselves.
- by Dave
- (unregistered id: 3ED8B1FC20)
yeah, Dr. Girlfriend is a strange character: she lets Phantom Limb and / or The Monarch boss her around, always tries to break free only to fall back into the same dependency of a "number 1". Dr. Mrs. The Monrach ... what about Sheila? What about Lady AuPair?!
I'm trying to get my my g/f like VB and she said the same thing: Sheila is an awesome character, why does she alway have to be someone's girlfriend, number two, wife or queen? she could totally make her own way ... bestter than theMonrach, better than Phantom Limb, but she never does. why?
I'm trying to get my my g/f like VB and she said the same thing: Sheila is an awesome character, why does she alway have to be someone's girlfriend, number two, wife or queen? she could totally make her own way ... bestter than theMonrach, better than Phantom Limb, but she never does. why?
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
I've got a sister-in-law who keeps marrying the same kind of asshole. She never sees them as the assholes, although the rest of her family can. I think Sheila's the same way. She's looking for a father figure she can support and admire, nev er realizing that the men she's attracted to are the kind of men who use and abuse her. As for numbering Oneing instead of number twoing, I imagine she lacks the self-confidence to pull it off or worse, the vision to make it happen. In the Sea-Cow episode she talks about The Monarch having more hatred in one little figure than other people have in their whole bodies, or something like that. She's obviously attracted by that kind of fire but she herself has never shown any kind of intensity like that.
- by Mogo
- (unregistered id: DAB49CBA9F)
Nice, that fits her, now for the monarch:
I think that his anger stems from not knowing his dad. His hate for doctor venture, as i've figured it probably had a reason long ago but has turned into pure hate. He sees venture for nothing but a slime incrusted nightmare of a failure douche, as well as his greatest enemy. And that's how i've finally figured out this season:Last season he didn't have venture and his obsession hurt his career. This year he has it back but has become more and more obsessed with venture and paranoid. He was fine with the notion that his right hand was fucking his wife but lost it whenever he thought he was making a play for venture. The Monarch is starting to let his job envelope his wife and thus he's treating Sheila and 21 like crap. The monarchs starting to become the heartless monster he tries to act like, and is starting to even try to subvert the guild whenever the hell he wants to. The monarchs become what he always wanted and Sheila's too much of a doormat.
Oh and as for dr.girlfreind/sheila, I saw a theory in that link mike sent that Bowie was sheilas father and that fits this too:Being the secret child of a rockstar/supervillan leaves little daddy time. She would obvilously be attracted to the type of men like that. I'm not saying the soverigns a bad guy but since the point of the show is to show how bad this type of life affects people.......
I think that his anger stems from not knowing his dad. His hate for doctor venture, as i've figured it probably had a reason long ago but has turned into pure hate. He sees venture for nothing but a slime incrusted nightmare of a failure douche, as well as his greatest enemy. And that's how i've finally figured out this season:Last season he didn't have venture and his obsession hurt his career. This year he has it back but has become more and more obsessed with venture and paranoid. He was fine with the notion that his right hand was fucking his wife but lost it whenever he thought he was making a play for venture. The Monarch is starting to let his job envelope his wife and thus he's treating Sheila and 21 like crap. The monarchs starting to become the heartless monster he tries to act like, and is starting to even try to subvert the guild whenever the hell he wants to. The monarchs become what he always wanted and Sheila's too much of a doormat.
Oh and as for dr.girlfreind/sheila, I saw a theory in that link mike sent that Bowie was sheilas father and that fits this too:Being the secret child of a rockstar/supervillan leaves little daddy time. She would obvilously be attracted to the type of men like that. I'm not saying the soverigns a bad guy but since the point of the show is to show how bad this type of life affects people.......
- by Pecktacular
- (unregistered id: A5F7DB1C9C)
So does anyone know what the ratings were like for this season (or half-season) compared to the past 3? Kinda to give me an idea of seasons 5's chances. I know mike put something up today showing the amount of hits on this site had gone up significantly this half season vs. season 3 and season 4.1.
- by Emery
- (unregistered id: B6850EF77F)
I don't think there is a secret president or even a treal secret government.
Think about it.
In the episode General Treister infiltrated a breakaway force to infiltrate his own infiltrated force who were (not) convncing him he was a hulk to discredit him so they could take over. That makes no sense. It's insane. Brock and te rest of Sphynx are mainly concerned with TURF over who they get to fight rather than loyalty to an oath or anything like that.
THEREFORE: We may conclude that the spies of the Venture world are JUST as crazy and 'fake' as the heroes, scientists, occultists, and villains are. They are just one more goofy stereotypical genre based clique who waste their lives playing a bizarre game that appeals to their natures. In the spy case it is a game of constant betrayal and power struggle and secrets for their own sake. Cardholder and Doe are not real bad guys so much as they are "shirts" to the OSI/Sphynx "skins" in the big game. Someone has to be the bad guy in a game or there is no game.
OSI may sometimes be of some use to the US government or uber-rich people like Brisby but the spies are always mainly focused on doing their own lunatic thing and that thing is meaninglessly compulsive and does not conform to any solid plot rules beyond it being all spy-like and shady.
I wonder now if the police are any more reasonable or sane given how they were slapping Rusty around for the guy that Brock bisected. They are parodies of guys on cop shows not real citizens who happen to work for the police.
I think virtally everybody in the Venture world is a crank of some kind acting out a goofy part that meets their particular deviant needs and yet conforms to some cartoonish aspect of central casting.
Think about it.
In the episode General Treister infiltrated a breakaway force to infiltrate his own infiltrated force who were (not) convncing him he was a hulk to discredit him so they could take over. That makes no sense. It's insane. Brock and te rest of Sphynx are mainly concerned with TURF over who they get to fight rather than loyalty to an oath or anything like that.
THEREFORE: We may conclude that the spies of the Venture world are JUST as crazy and 'fake' as the heroes, scientists, occultists, and villains are. They are just one more goofy stereotypical genre based clique who waste their lives playing a bizarre game that appeals to their natures. In the spy case it is a game of constant betrayal and power struggle and secrets for their own sake. Cardholder and Doe are not real bad guys so much as they are "shirts" to the OSI/Sphynx "skins" in the big game. Someone has to be the bad guy in a game or there is no game.
OSI may sometimes be of some use to the US government or uber-rich people like Brisby but the spies are always mainly focused on doing their own lunatic thing and that thing is meaninglessly compulsive and does not conform to any solid plot rules beyond it being all spy-like and shady.
I wonder now if the police are any more reasonable or sane given how they were slapping Rusty around for the guy that Brock bisected. They are parodies of guys on cop shows not real citizens who happen to work for the police.
I think virtally everybody in the Venture world is a crank of some kind acting out a goofy part that meets their particular deviant needs and yet conforms to some cartoonish aspect of central casting.
- by Your Mother
- (unregistered id: 587CF994FE)
Unanswered Questions and Obvious Plotlines for Season 5
- Who killed the original Dr. Venture and how?
- 21 wrestles with his transformation into a good guy
- 21 wins Dr. Girlfriend, when she realizes the Monarch has become a douche
- Hank & Dean embark on life after high school/learning beds
- Brock replaces Hatred
- The Revenge Society gets their revenge
- Molotov lives
- Everyone comes to Deans
- In the words of the pupa twins: "Why do the Monarch and Dr. Venture hate each other?"
My $$$ says this last question will be the last bit of the show, and will involve something small and silly which the Monarch goes on to base his life of revenge and hatred upon.
- Who killed the original Dr. Venture and how?
- 21 wrestles with his transformation into a good guy
- 21 wins Dr. Girlfriend, when she realizes the Monarch has become a douche
- Hank & Dean embark on life after high school/learning beds
- Brock replaces Hatred
- The Revenge Society gets their revenge
- Molotov lives
- Everyone comes to Deans
- In the words of the pupa twins: "Why do the Monarch and Dr. Venture hate each other?"
My $$$ says this last question will be the last bit of the show, and will involve something small and silly which the Monarch goes on to base his life of revenge and hatred upon.
- by GrimGravy
- (unregistered id: 38D6ECB1AE)
- The Ventureverse is just a giant grey area. Part of the appeal of The Venture Bros. is showing that good guys aren't necessarily good guys and that good people can be prone to doing bad things. Really bad things. Like using a orphan's heart to fuel a masturbation enhancer. In other words, I think new windows will open to Gary in the life of a good guy, but I wouldn't imagine it would be such a soul search. After all, Hatred transitioned pretty easily into being a goody; his hardest endeavor was giving up little boys.
- The Monarch has always been a bit of a douche though, including when he and Sheila first met. She very openly knows the Monarch is a douche and given the things that he does, the things she helps him do, and the things she told Gary, she's not leaving him anytime soon just because he's a douche.
- We already touched on Hank & Dean post-learning beds with Everybody Comes To Hank's and Bright Lights, Dean City, so we already know everything they encounter will fail miserably. After Dean's outbursts in P.R.O.M., I think we can look forward to him trying to become more assertive (including things like finally telling Rusty he wants to do journalism).
- I question how long it would be for the Revenge Society to turn around and be successful after Dean burnt Impossible Industries to the ground. It seemed that even before that that Impossible was losing his lucrative ties.
- I know, right? We know the reason is either going to be something HUGE or something hilariously psychotically small, like "He's the reason my butterfly poem I dedicated to my monarch parents got an 'F' in college." Pretty much though --courtesy of Home Is Where The Hate Is and Tears of a Sea Cow -- we already know why Monarch hates Rusty. He's a crazy bastard and he just doesn't agree with the cut of Rust's jib. I vote for mishap in Creative Writing class though.
- The Monarch has always been a bit of a douche though, including when he and Sheila first met. She very openly knows the Monarch is a douche and given the things that he does, the things she helps him do, and the things she told Gary, she's not leaving him anytime soon just because he's a douche.
- We already touched on Hank & Dean post-learning beds with Everybody Comes To Hank's and Bright Lights, Dean City, so we already know everything they encounter will fail miserably. After Dean's outbursts in P.R.O.M., I think we can look forward to him trying to become more assertive (including things like finally telling Rusty he wants to do journalism).
- I question how long it would be for the Revenge Society to turn around and be successful after Dean burnt Impossible Industries to the ground. It seemed that even before that that Impossible was losing his lucrative ties.
- I know, right? We know the reason is either going to be something HUGE or something hilariously psychotically small, like "He's the reason my butterfly poem I dedicated to my monarch parents got an 'F' in college." Pretty much though --courtesy of Home Is Where The Hate Is and Tears of a Sea Cow -- we already know why Monarch hates Rusty. He's a crazy bastard and he just doesn't agree with the cut of Rust's jib. I vote for mishap in Creative Writing class though.
- by 90percentrayon
- (unregistered id: D39E866170)
Never commented here, but my goodness! I think I've watched this three or four times now and I'm constantly amazed at how dense with humor and story Doc and Jackson can make an episode -- and an hour long one at that.
My favorite scene has to be 21 waking up after being hit by Hatred and talking to Shore Leave.
Anybody have thoughts on The Monarch adding his own name to the "Eye for an I" list? It could work out that 21 finds this and decides The Monarch is responsible (or falsely remembers he is?) and becomes the nemesis of The Monarch. Note - we don't know that The Monarch has a good reason to arch Rusty. It could be a misunderstanding...
My favorite scene has to be 21 waking up after being hit by Hatred and talking to Shore Leave.
Anybody have thoughts on The Monarch adding his own name to the "Eye for an I" list? It could work out that 21 finds this and decides The Monarch is responsible (or falsely remembers he is?) and becomes the nemesis of The Monarch. Note - we don't know that The Monarch has a good reason to arch Rusty. It could be a misunderstanding...
- by The Mysterious 'H'
- (unregistered id: B7D02EEF34)
From what I gather, they actually were Blackhearts. Rick Lacy called them that in his latest blog post and Jackson called them Blackhearts in the discussion thread for his latest post. Still, no official confirmation so take that with a grain of salt. And even if they really were Blackhearts, it still could've been a ruse to distract Brock.
- by Waynooski
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