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"The Devil's Grip" Discussion
The SDCC + Season Finale Giveaway is still in full swing, so if you haven't entered that yet you really should. You can win some neat Brock Samson action figures signed by Jackson and Doc, including last year's SDCC exclusive figure that you can't even buy any more. Unless you check eBay, probably.
Don't forget to rate the episode on the guide page after you watch it. And feel free to go back through the rest of the season and score them as well. We need to know where these things stand in Venture History. It's true, that's a real thing that people care about! Or at least I do!
Shirt Club has debuted the final shirt, and it's Calamity Conference shirt as seen in the episode (not really a spoiler).
- by policegirl01
- by policegirl01
- by Biff
- (unregistered id: 720B93D9CA)
It was kind of the same ending joke as in "Perchance to Dean".
I thought Hatred's comments and he fucked up and blew shit up were much funnier.
And then his final comment after surely killing many people sent it over the top:
"I'm just gonna go.. we'll pick this up another time."
I thought Hatred's comments and he fucked up and blew shit up were much funnier.
And then his final comment after surely killing many people sent it over the top:
"I'm just gonna go.. we'll pick this up another time."
- by Hank
Haha yes. After my longass post last week, I was pretty much holding my breath any time Hatred was on screen.
Speaking of death: holy crap, are all of the Monarch's men (aside from Gary) dead?
Speaking of death and me getting carried away: did I mishear, or did Action Man actually say Entmann was the first of the original Team Venture to die?
.....where's Jonas' grave?
Speaking of death: holy crap, are all of the Monarch's men (aside from Gary) dead?
Speaking of death and me getting carried away: did I mishear, or did Action Man actually say Entmann was the first of the original Team Venture to die?
.....where's Jonas' grave?
- by Hank
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
I took it to simply mean that Entmann was the first outside of Venture himself to die.
Is anyone else sad for 86 and 87? I really wanted more from those guys.
If the hovertank is so effective, why wasn't the cocoon destroyed ages ago?
Not going to lie, I was massively disappointed in this episode. To be honest I've found myself continuously disappointed by Doc Hammer episodes for a while now. We deserved some revelations in this episode, not the lazy end to the who-killed-24 thread that we got. Not a return to the old status quo for Gary. There were a couple of good moments but this episode just didn't have that season finale spectacle we've come to expect.
Is anyone else sad for 86 and 87? I really wanted more from those guys.
If the hovertank is so effective, why wasn't the cocoon destroyed ages ago?
Not going to lie, I was massively disappointed in this episode. To be honest I've found myself continuously disappointed by Doc Hammer episodes for a while now. We deserved some revelations in this episode, not the lazy end to the who-killed-24 thread that we got. Not a return to the old status quo for Gary. There were a couple of good moments but this episode just didn't have that season finale spectacle we've come to expect.
Sorry you didn't like the episode. I was pretty let down by Doc's "Ted" episode, some of which I thought was uncharacteristically lazy for someone as clever as Doc Hammer. I was pleasantly surprised with Doc's other efforts, though. I didn't like any of them as well as "O.S.I. Love You, "Bot Seeks Bot," or even "Spanakopita" (which I thought was reminiscent of some of Doc's better episodes, such as the day camp episode, which are often light and breezy. Still, I liked the focus on Gary and Dermott, even if I didn't like the direction Doc ultimately chose for Gary. Like you, I would have preferred Gary to remain independent or find a more fulfilling niche.
But hey, Doc gave us some hilarious scenes with the S.P.H.I.N.X. Commander, Hank's Destiny suit, the only real taste we got of Shallow Gravy, more of original Team Venture (always good by me), etc. I thought it was still a solid showing.
But hey, Doc gave us some hilarious scenes with the S.P.H.I.N.X. Commander, Hank's Destiny suit, the only real taste we got of Shallow Gravy, more of original Team Venture (always good by me), etc. I thought it was still a solid showing.
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 281A9E1044)
I'll give credit where it's due: the acid magnet gag, Doc summoning Hatred on his watch when he was trapped next to him, Daddy Warlord of the Children of the Corn, the entire Halloween episode...all those I loved.
But I do think there are too many lazy coincidences in the episodes this series, like Doc and Hatred crashing by the asylum, or the Destiny innuendo which was terribly forced.
Ooh, by the way, I spotted you an animation goof in O.S.I. Love You - Phage's silhouette appears in Monstroso's photos before he's joined the Council
But I do think there are too many lazy coincidences in the episodes this series, like Doc and Hatred crashing by the asylum, or the Destiny innuendo which was terribly forced.
Ooh, by the way, I spotted you an animation goof in O.S.I. Love You - Phage's silhouette appears in Monstroso's photos before he's joined the Council
"[T]here are too many lazy coincidences in the episodes this series, like Doc and Hatred crashing by the asylum . . . ."
That one drove me nuts, too. That was one of my major problems with the episode.
I think your points are valid. It seems that some fans will forgive weak or lazy writing, so long as an episode contains a few Big Reveals. Personally, I hate it when a show's writers substitute reveals for good storytelling, creativity, nuance, genuinely funny dialogue, etc. I guess, for me, Doc's soap opera-style tendencies were outweighed this season by the more positive aspects of his writing. It's really just a personal preference thing.
And as for that animation gaffe, I would NEVER have caught that. That's some amazing power of perception!
That one drove me nuts, too. That was one of my major problems with the episode.
I think your points are valid. It seems that some fans will forgive weak or lazy writing, so long as an episode contains a few Big Reveals. Personally, I hate it when a show's writers substitute reveals for good storytelling, creativity, nuance, genuinely funny dialogue, etc. I guess, for me, Doc's soap opera-style tendencies were outweighed this season by the more positive aspects of his writing. It's really just a personal preference thing.
And as for that animation gaffe, I would NEVER have caught that. That's some amazing power of perception!
- by Hank
- by policegirl01
Transition episode, wasn't the best but better than fururama's final season where the writing and acting is phoned in. Still very creative, leaves you hungry for more of the most intelligent animated show on TV. There was allot (as usual) to absorb. Hank got Dean to open up and realize that there are worse things than being a clone... Dead. Meeting quizboy's mom was cool. There was an obvious missing part, but that would have made for an hour episode (I wish they all were hour long), Jonas Jr. This shows that besides his "ultra high brow" attitude and moral superiority, he doesn't care as much as Hatred or Gary. Gary going back to the Monarch is fitting since the Monarch missed him so much arching Rusty lost the luster it once had. Now they are a happy family again. All I can think of now is...I want more... I am willing to wait, since great art (like Doc's art which is awesome!) is ready when it is ready. Thank you Doc, Thank you Publick, Thank you Cofford, Lazzo & Simon! You make the world a better place with the Venture Brothers! Oh and Thank you to Johnny Quest for being some of the premise to this work of art!
- by Captain V Bro.
- (unregistered id: 720B93D9CA)
Again, that episode was fucking awesome!
Hatred in full Henchman gear was funny and great.
Monarch and that picture he clings to now...
Making me think he and Dr. Venture may be related.
Props to them for actually killing Entmann and the Moppets.
Hank's happy reaction to finding out he died was great, and was seeded earlier in season three.
So many great parts!
It was freaking V genius.
Hatred in full Henchman gear was funny and great.
Monarch and that picture he clings to now...
Making me think he and Dr. Venture may be related.
Props to them for actually killing Entmann and the Moppets.
Hank's happy reaction to finding out he died was great, and was seeded earlier in season three.
So many great parts!
It was freaking V genius.
On first watch, I wouldn't say it was my favorite episode (that would be a tie between "O.S.I. Love You" and "Bot Seeks Bot"), but it was very, very good. I especially loved Hank's reaction to learning that he's a clone; I thought it was perfectly . . . Hank! My favorite things, though, were (1) Hank's and the Action Man's staged scene to impress Billy's mom (the line about dressing like an indigent had me fucking rolling); and (2) Hank's lightning-bolt bass strap (I'm not sure if it's a nod to Ace Frehley or Rivers Cuomo, but I love it, regardless).
It'll take a re-watch or two to really pick things apart, but I thought it was a fantastic end to what has been, to my mind, at least, the best season in show's run.
It'll take a re-watch or two to really pick things apart, but I thought it was a fantastic end to what has been, to my mind, at least, the best season in show's run.
Okay, here is two questions:
Action Man: was he not suppose to be dead two years after the events of "Past Tense"--Season One--of a stroke according to Doctor Orpheus [Cue Cymbal Crash.--Ed.]?
Gary's Knowledge: I think quite a few people speculated that it was indeed the moppets who killed 24. So . . . why did Gary wait this long to gain revenge? Sure, it seems he came to understand that "24" what a now figment of his tortured imagination, but he seems one of the few loyal characters in the Venture Universe--"Ventureverse? Ventverse?" Why would he wait?
Action Man: was he not suppose to be dead two years after the events of "Past Tense"--Season One--of a stroke according to Doctor Orpheus [Cue Cymbal Crash.--Ed.]?
Gary's Knowledge: I think quite a few people speculated that it was indeed the moppets who killed 24. So . . . why did Gary wait this long to gain revenge? Sure, it seems he came to understand that "24" what a now figment of his tortured imagination, but he seems one of the few loyal characters in the Venture Universe--"Ventureverse? Ventverse?" Why would he wait?
You know, it seemed to me that he had already concluded it but pulled it out just to save himself from the other advancing henchmen. You know, like it was an opportunistic thing. In fact, his reverting to the Monarch seemed nothing but opportunistic. Until Hatred sent the flaming cocoon crashing into the Monarch's bedroom--and that may have been the greatest phrase I've ever had the privilege to write--he seemed to have no real plans on returning to the Monarch. He seemed touched to find that the Monarch or the other henchmen had saved him a t-shirt, but far from convinced that he should rejoin. In fact, are we sure that Gary is fully committed to the Monarch again?
"Until Hatred sent the flaming cocoon crashing into the Monarch's bedroom" will probably be in the Urban Dictionary soon. >.<
Yeah, your point about the opportunism on Gary's part: like he used it as a convenient afterthought. Though that is what a True Villain would do. It seems like Gary has been looking to "belong." He belonged to The MONARCH!--okay, he was kidnapped!--lost his one friend and tried to be an ubber henchman rather than just an effective screwup.
So he leaves The MONARCH! disolusioned . . . dissolusioned . . . after PROM . . . sees Brock as a leader and joins--he thinks--Sphinx {SPHINX!} only to get dumped. He sort of makes himself a part of Venture, but not really.
Having written that he does not at all respond to Hatred--the scene reminds me of Fight Club. He seems to be just doing a job.
Okay . . . "tldr." Probably over thinking since I am sure Doc and Jackson did not plan out every minute detail back in Season One! The Henchmen were just that--random guys for which they had two cool voices they could riff with. Eventually, 21 and 24 became separate characters.
Yeah, your point about the opportunism on Gary's part: like he used it as a convenient afterthought. Though that is what a True Villain would do. It seems like Gary has been looking to "belong." He belonged to The MONARCH!--okay, he was kidnapped!--lost his one friend and tried to be an ubber henchman rather than just an effective screwup.
So he leaves The MONARCH! disolusioned . . . dissolusioned . . . after PROM . . . sees Brock as a leader and joins--he thinks--Sphinx {SPHINX!} only to get dumped. He sort of makes himself a part of Venture, but not really.
Having written that he does not at all respond to Hatred--the scene reminds me of Fight Club. He seems to be just doing a job.
Okay . . . "tldr." Probably over thinking since I am sure Doc and Jackson did not plan out every minute detail back in Season One! The Henchmen were just that--random guys for which they had two cool voices they could riff with. Eventually, 21 and 24 became separate characters.
- by Doctor Y
- (unregistered id: 681CA8D90C)
I think Gary's characterization is the most interesting in the entire show, for a lot of the things you pointed out here. Most of the characters live this life and are used to it to the point where it's humdrum and borderline annoying. Gary has time and again offered new perspectives on the villains chasing heroes motif, switching sides, losing his only friend, upgrading to badass. It feels to me more and more (especially in Doc episodes) that GARY is the real main character of the show.
Also: "disillusioned."
Also: "disillusioned."
What about his hesitant, "I'm back"?
I think he is somewhat committed to the Monarch if only because he realized what we learned in the premiere: that he's the closest thing that the Monarch has to a friend, and vice-versa. It's especially sad since that friendship of Vatred would have given him that since of place he'd been looking for all season.
Fucking moppets.
More interestingly though, I don't think the Monarch is committed to hating Venture anymore. I believed the sad look at his picture more than his triumphant boasting in front of Dr. Mrs. His Boss.
I think he is somewhat committed to the Monarch if only because he realized what we learned in the premiere: that he's the closest thing that the Monarch has to a friend, and vice-versa. It's especially sad since that friendship of Vatred would have given him that since of place he'd been looking for all season.
Fucking moppets.
More interestingly though, I don't think the Monarch is committed to hating Venture anymore. I believed the sad look at his picture more than his triumphant boasting in front of Dr. Mrs. His Boss.
I agree completely. Hatred had finally come around to Gary until Kevin fucked it all up. I don't know if we've seen the last of the moppets, but one can always hope. And as for your take on the Monarch/Dr. Venture scene, I think you're right. I don't believe for a second that the Monarch really feels he's beaten Doc. He was playing the role Dr. Mrs. the Monarch expects him to play. And he was staring awfully pensively at that old photograph.
I had already pontificated enough last night, but it seems to me that The MONARCH [!--Ed.] and many of the GofCI like to "play" villains. Sure, The MONARCH is happy to kill random henchmen, Wonderboy, his accountant, but Venture?
Recall the testicular torsion episode . . . no, I will wait . . . obviously there is no "point" to explaining how Doc/Brock and all get "out" of The MONARCH's trap. That is not the joke. But The MONARCH! seems a parody of the television Batman villain--"Ha!HA!HA! I will put you in a PLAYER PIANO . . . of DEATH!" An over-the-top "doom" or something.
It seems, over time, his hatred of Venture has sort of transformed. He was happy to try to blow him up in college. Now? Does he actually torture Venture? I think he realizes without an "enemy" there is no point to all his dress up and villainy.
Recall the testicular torsion episode . . . no, I will wait . . . obviously there is no "point" to explaining how Doc/Brock and all get "out" of The MONARCH's trap. That is not the joke. But The MONARCH! seems a parody of the television Batman villain--"Ha!HA!HA! I will put you in a PLAYER PIANO . . . of DEATH!" An over-the-top "doom" or something.
It seems, over time, his hatred of Venture has sort of transformed. He was happy to try to blow him up in college. Now? Does he actually torture Venture? I think he realizes without an "enemy" there is no point to all his dress up and villainy.
- by policegirl01
Action Man said that his wife died, so I think that validates one of the threads from last week speculating that Orpheus may have meant his wife.
With Gary, it's had to tell what's been going through his head. He was obviously angry and I think he just wanted to try something else for a change. When he found the Calamity Conference shirt, he realized how much better he had it there...even though Monarch can be a bit of a dick (as seen at the end when he didn't know who 'Gary' was).
With Gary, it's had to tell what's been going through his head. He was obviously angry and I think he just wanted to try something else for a change. When he found the Calamity Conference shirt, he realized how much better he had it there...even though Monarch can be a bit of a dick (as seen at the end when he didn't know who 'Gary' was).
- by Audrey
- (unregistered id: 13711EC04E)
lol I actually took a quick look at the Past Tense episode on my itunes..Orpheus said he'd just have a stroke...not stroke and die....and as for Gary...I don't know...maybe after quitting as a henchman he was trying to forget all about the monarch world and 24 but then coming back to the cocoon he realized that he'd always be a henchman and had the opportunity at that very moment for revenge..but i could be wrong ^_^
- by Phreezer
- (unregistered id: 9B9915BD65)
I get the feeling that after Operation P.R.O.M. Gary didn't want anything to do with the henchman life anymore. He was confused about his feelings for Dr. Mrs. The Monarch and his revelation that 24 was all in his head. This whole season he has been throwing himself at anything trying to get past his life as a henchmen. He helped the Sgt. Hatred, jumped into his sphinx duties, assisted Hank and Dermot in their crazy get thrown in the asylum plan, and was generally doing everything he could to stay away from the Cocoon. While his friend was killed he had nothing concrete on the moppets. I'm guessing he used that as a feint to stop the advancing henchmen.
I'm really looking forward to 2015 now. I want to see what happens next as Gary seems to be the only Henchmen who survived after the Cocoon getting hit with that missile and crashing.
I'm really looking forward to 2015 now. I want to see what happens next as Gary seems to be the only Henchmen who survived after the Cocoon getting hit with that missile and crashing.
- by beb off-site
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
While Action Man's death was prophacied ten years ago in our time, in Venture Time it's been *ROUGHLY* two years. Dean saws he won't date a 6 year old in response to Col. Gentleman;s comment about not dating someone a third your age. But considering how people round things, Dean could be anywhere from 17 to 19. If he's still 17+ then Action man has a couple months yet.
I kind of like the idea that Henchman Zero, Scott, was the one who killed 24. He could have infiltrated the Cocoon because he already had the costume. But there was some evidence that suggested the Moppets killed 24 earlier last season.
I'm not sure how long Gary has known that the Moppets killed 24. It might have been a sudden revelation, he may have made the charge just to deflect the other henchmen away from his treachery (ie, quitting the Monarch).
As for his return. I mourn the things he could have been - Sphynx Commander, OSI agent, Venture Bodyguard - but I can see why he had to return to the cocoon. Doc and Jackson need a minions point of view of life within the Cocoon to balance out The Monarch and DMtM. The creaters needed Gary back with the Monarch.
I kind of like the idea that Henchman Zero, Scott, was the one who killed 24. He could have infiltrated the Cocoon because he already had the costume. But there was some evidence that suggested the Moppets killed 24 earlier last season.
I'm not sure how long Gary has known that the Moppets killed 24. It might have been a sudden revelation, he may have made the charge just to deflect the other henchmen away from his treachery (ie, quitting the Monarch).
As for his return. I mourn the things he could have been - Sphynx Commander, OSI agent, Venture Bodyguard - but I can see why he had to return to the cocoon. Doc and Jackson need a minions point of view of life within the Cocoon to balance out The Monarch and DMtM. The creaters needed Gary back with the Monarch.
To Audrey and policegirl01: obviously D and J leave enough open so they can have someplace to "go" later. I assumed when Orpheus [!--Ed.] held his hands he was sensing when Action Man would die since he is a Necrophile . . . I mean . . . Necromancer :P
D and J could EASILY work that into Action Man thinking about his wife and when will she finally die so he can go one being insane and all of that and Orpheus answers him.
You may also be right, Audrey, regarding Gary's feelings. Maybe he was so disillusioned--yay!--with the Monarch when he made his break he made his break with 24 and the need to gain justice. As you said, the opportunity arose, he happily acted on it.
D and J could EASILY work that into Action Man thinking about his wife and when will she finally die so he can go one being insane and all of that and Orpheus answers him.
You may also be right, Audrey, regarding Gary's feelings. Maybe he was so disillusioned--yay!--with the Monarch when he made his break he made his break with 24 and the need to gain justice. As you said, the opportunity arose, he happily acted on it.
- by Mystery Person
- (unregistered id: 1E7248B202)
Something about the way they animated the scene with Doc and Monarch talking at the saw table suggested their relatedness...it really is amazing how much alike those two can be.
Dean's new guitar runs about $1700 new. I always wanted a Stingray back when I was playing bass. It never occurred to me I might get my hands on one by playing retirement home matchmaker...
I don't think I can get into an extended Hatred/Gary feud. I sorta hope it doesn't get much attention next season.
The handling of Humongoloid's remains raises a lot of questions about Jonas Sr.'s death and how it was handled...
Dean's new guitar runs about $1700 new. I always wanted a Stingray back when I was playing bass. It never occurred to me I might get my hands on one by playing retirement home matchmaker...
I don't think I can get into an extended Hatred/Gary feud. I sorta hope it doesn't get much attention next season.
The handling of Humongoloid's remains raises a lot of questions about Jonas Sr.'s death and how it was handled...
not in any way what i thought it was going to be like, but wow! so much substance!! jackson and doc side stepped the usual action finale for a more introspective and heartfelt one. they got all their brock jollies out in osi and bot(which are still the best ones). entman's death was by far one of the funniest they've written. that glorious moment with hank and dean at the end was worth the whole episode and tied up the season in a nice bow. excellent. freaking. finale.
I gotta say this season on reflection has really fell flat for me. It's like they are building to things and then just nothing, the resolved a few things but just left things hanging. this episode seemed like a B plot for a real episode. does anyone know is they are doing the split season thing like last time or was that actually a 10 episode ( counting the Halloween episode) if it is that is pretty lame after the wait we had to endure. hire some more freaking writer and voice actors for shit sake you have bill hader who ios a comedy writer, get us a season in a timely fashion. I know this is kinda a rant but i love this fucking show and i just feel kinda crest fallin this year
- by Descriptor
- (unregistered id: EC140B15E2)
Well, at that point it becomes a matter of quantity versus quality. Sure, there would be more episodes, but would they be as good?
But yeah, I do feel like a lot of stuff wasn't covered this season, and it ultimately feels kinda empty, but at least the episodes we did get were all fun.
Also, holy cow, we actually met someone's mother? I mean, who was the last mother we even knew of in this show? Dr. friggen Quimm?
But yeah, I do feel like a lot of stuff wasn't covered this season, and it ultimately feels kinda empty, but at least the episodes we did get were all fun.
Also, holy cow, we actually met someone's mother? I mean, who was the last mother we even knew of in this show? Dr. friggen Quimm?
- by Mike
Man, I don't know. In terms of raw quality this, to me, has been the strongest season ever. I was trying to think which episode I would classify as the weak one and I can't come up with one. "Momma's Boys", maybe? "Venture Libre"? I don't even know. Both of those episodes are great, too.
I mean, we got answers on the Council of 13, a definitive answer on Myra, insight into Doc's character, the boys both know that they're clones, the Monstroso/Molotov thing was resolved, we saw a nice arc on 21's character, new bad guys, returning bad guys, some adventuring, Hank as The Bat and as Enrico Matassa, everyone knows Dermott's story now, HELPeR is normal again, a Doc/Monarch connection revealed. Lots of stuff. Sure some questions were brought up, but what fun is it if there aren't any mysteries?
I get that people want, like, non-stop Venture Bros every week forever, but that's just not a thing that can happen. If we are at the point where practically every episode is a contender for Best Episode Ever then I am fine with waiting a year or two between seasons if I have to. I have other stuff I can do in the meantime, so they can work on making an amazing show and when it's ready for viewing then I'll watch it and it'll be awesome. There's really nothing to be gained by being all impatient about it. Just enjoy what there is and be happy knowing that there will eventually be some more.
I mean, we got answers on the Council of 13, a definitive answer on Myra, insight into Doc's character, the boys both know that they're clones, the Monstroso/Molotov thing was resolved, we saw a nice arc on 21's character, new bad guys, returning bad guys, some adventuring, Hank as The Bat and as Enrico Matassa, everyone knows Dermott's story now, HELPeR is normal again, a Doc/Monarch connection revealed. Lots of stuff. Sure some questions were brought up, but what fun is it if there aren't any mysteries?
I get that people want, like, non-stop Venture Bros every week forever, but that's just not a thing that can happen. If we are at the point where practically every episode is a contender for Best Episode Ever then I am fine with waiting a year or two between seasons if I have to. I have other stuff I can do in the meantime, so they can work on making an amazing show and when it's ready for viewing then I'll watch it and it'll be awesome. There's really nothing to be gained by being all impatient about it. Just enjoy what there is and be happy knowing that there will eventually be some more.
Yeah I hear what your saying, It just didn't feel like there was a lot of substance to me. I don't have anything I ever talk about after the fact in this season, it is just huh that was an episode. I don't want venture time everyday to infinity, but having it on a regular schedule would be great, after 5 seasons these guys seem to be getting a little mined out, this whole season has kinda been a insiders ride. You cant really go "hey friend who hasn't seen this show before, come watch this new episode" If you did you would have to sit there the whole time explaining things from every other season, and not like a few things like every single relationship and background element. I really think it is time to bring on other people to help them out, I think it would yield a better show for us and a more marketable product for them
- by Mike
Well I agree with that statement, though I disagree on the substance, I think there was a ton of it. The series is good at paying off for people who have seen the entire thing. That's just the nature of a serial thing though. You get invested in it from the start and it pays off with reveals about characters. Characters change and evolve over time, die, go off and do other things for a while etc. To me that's a major reason the show has been able to stay fresh, because when Jackson and Doc don't know what to do with a character they put them in a new role. They mix things up. Brock staying as Brock from season one would be boring. Hank and Dean being gullible morons is a funny gag for a season but it would become an old schtick and so on.
That of course comes at the detriment of roping in new people immediately, but I think having a bunch of standalone episodes that don't tie into each other at all would be less interesting and certainly stagnate. You have to buy into the premise of the show and the bar for entry naturally gets higher with each passing season, but once you're invested then you're hooked for life.
I think, given the somewhat small audience on Adult Swim coupled with the smaller budget of the show precludes any of your other suggestions from happening. Shows with a huge team of writers and less imposing continuity inevitably stagnate. Every episode is just a series of jokes, and characters don't really grow or change and eventually it just loses its charm.
That of course comes at the detriment of roping in new people immediately, but I think having a bunch of standalone episodes that don't tie into each other at all would be less interesting and certainly stagnate. You have to buy into the premise of the show and the bar for entry naturally gets higher with each passing season, but once you're invested then you're hooked for life.
I think, given the somewhat small audience on Adult Swim coupled with the smaller budget of the show precludes any of your other suggestions from happening. Shows with a huge team of writers and less imposing continuity inevitably stagnate. Every episode is just a series of jokes, and characters don't really grow or change and eventually it just loses its charm.
To add to Mike's [PBUH--Ed.] comment--if a show "sticks" with a joke, it becomes stale. WAYYYYY back, when South Park had . . . yes . . . video tapes! The "commentary" for the first season had Trey and Matt claim that Kenny "must die" in every episode.
Well, as the series continued, they realized the joke would become stale. So they adapted it. So if ALL The MONARCH [!--Ed.] was was a parody of a Batman--Adam West--villain, it would get boring fast. If all Dr. Girlfriend was--"sexy babe with husky voice"--boring! Doc and Jackson have been humble enough to move on, adapt. Heck, in one of their commentaries they claimed they thought Sgt. Hatred and his pedophilia was hilarious--perhaps doing the voice? They responded to fan complaints.
Well, as the series continued, they realized the joke would become stale. So they adapted it. So if ALL The MONARCH [!--Ed.] was was a parody of a Batman--Adam West--villain, it would get boring fast. If all Dr. Girlfriend was--"sexy babe with husky voice"--boring! Doc and Jackson have been humble enough to move on, adapt. Heck, in one of their commentaries they claimed they thought Sgt. Hatred and his pedophilia was hilarious--perhaps doing the voice? They responded to fan complaints.
- by Mike
On re-watch, some other things I loved:
1. Sgt. Hatred to Gary: "Did you just cock your stick?"
2. Favorite item on the Monarch's list: "Drive to bad neighborhood and scream racial epithets."
3. Col. Gentleman's house or apartment or whatever. It was a beautiful design in a season full of beautiful designs. It was perfect, right down to the elephant-foot table.
4. Gary's toy collection includes a Juggernaut, a Batman, an Optimus Prime, something that look likes an original X-Man, and a bunch of things I don't recognize.
5. Monarch's a real "safety first" kind of guy. He wears safety goggles when trying to operate the torture saw.
I could go on, but I'll stop there.
1. Sgt. Hatred to Gary: "Did you just cock your stick?"
2. Favorite item on the Monarch's list: "Drive to bad neighborhood and scream racial epithets."
3. Col. Gentleman's house or apartment or whatever. It was a beautiful design in a season full of beautiful designs. It was perfect, right down to the elephant-foot table.
4. Gary's toy collection includes a Juggernaut, a Batman, an Optimus Prime, something that look likes an original X-Man, and a bunch of things I don't recognize.
5. Monarch's a real "safety first" kind of guy. He wears safety goggles when trying to operate the torture saw.
I could go on, but I'll stop there.
- by beb off-site
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
Emotionally this is a big callback to the first season ep "Tag Sale, You're it." In that story the Monarch is trying to find some way of humiliating Doc Venture but comes to the realization that Rusty is such a failure at everything he's done that there's nothing the Monarch could do to make him feel worse.
In "The devil's Grip" is looks as if the Monarch is being to think he, too, is a terrible failure. And the way he keeps looking at the photo of him and Doc playing as children is clearly haunting him. Is he mourning his lost childhood or wondering how he ended up hating his childhood chum so intently.
In "The devil's Grip" is looks as if the Monarch is being to think he, too, is a terrible failure. And the way he keeps looking at the photo of him and Doc playing as children is clearly haunting him. Is he mourning his lost childhood or wondering how he ended up hating his childhood chum so intently.
this one was so deep. i could see the monarch trying to be friends with doc after this. maybe even quitting the villain thing for a minute. all the pieces are in place: no more cocoon, dr gf possibly joining the council, and realization that his job is kinda pointless. of course rusty would try to ignore monarch's attempts at friendship. i can't believe they actually had a heart to heart
- by Mike
The thing is, did he even really crush Doc's soul? Doc seemed more bummed about the Monarch giving up than he did about his own life. They had a little moment when the Monarch let him go but it's not like it was a revelation for Doc that his life is kind of shitty. I almost want to think the things the Monarch said to Doc were genuine and he was putting on a brave face for Dr. Mrs. (so to speak). As said, his focus on the photo before she came in was sort of a tell on that end. We'll see, I guess!
No, I don't think the Monarch crushed Doc's soul, at all. What Monarch said to Doc was real; that's why Doc was so bummed out by it. I think he felt genuine pity for the Monarch, at least in that moment. And the Monarch's speech to Dr. Girlfriend seemed to me to be (1) an attempt to save face with her; and (2) a sort of Freudian revelation about his own soul being crushed.
In any event, it should be interesting to see what season six holds for the Monarch.
In any event, it should be interesting to see what season six holds for the Monarch.
- by Hank
I think he was putting on a brave face for his wife as well. He usually talks to Dr. Venture in the over the top way, and rarely lets anyone see his other side. He told Rusty about Dr. Mrs. likely joining the guild, the Moppets taking over, and Gary quitting, with Doc being the FIRST person besides Dr. Mrs. that he's talked about any of that to.
- by Yak Kirby & His Fighting Emolition Somalian-Saurians
- (unregistered id: 4252B70F24)
Judo Lizards, killed by thumb, killed by rocking chair. Stuff I love.
Best thing about this season was the insane asylum, council of 13 revealed to be weird-ohs, & nutty new esoteric esoteric bizarre of S. America in Venture Libre. These memories will haunt for another 2 years or whatever.
It's emolition clobbering time.
See ya round guys.
Best thing about this season was the insane asylum, council of 13 revealed to be weird-ohs, & nutty new esoteric esoteric bizarre of S. America in Venture Libre. These memories will haunt for another 2 years or whatever.
It's emolition clobbering time.
See ya round guys.
- by Hungry Hippo
- (unregistered id: B46DDD1FCA)
It's funny. Last season's DVD commentary ended with Doc/Jason commenting on how Dean gets shat on all the time and implied this season would be different. But taking the entire season as a whole, Dean got REALLY shat on this season. He finds out he's a clone. He finds a girl that likes him only to get their memories wiped. His faux-mom who he was trying to connect with ended up trying to rebirth him. His future plans fall apart. He gets shackled with an insane Sean Connery while Hank gets $50 and a new base. And at the very end, after struggling with the truth for a year, he tells Hank he's a clone too and the guy doesn't care one bit.
By season 8 Dean's going to go on a shooting spree if this keeps up.
By season 8 Dean's going to go on a shooting spree if this keeps up.
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
On the other hand, Dean was given the time to think through his issues, realise he couldn't come to terms with them, then be offered a fresh perspective, one he hadn't even considered. If he's wise, he'll understand that. Hank's attitude could be just what Dean needs.
I got the impression last season that Dean wanted to be a fireman, though. All those 'up in smoke', 'dreams salvaged from ashes' puns. It never seemed to go anywhere.
Did anyone else take that away from BL,DC?
I got the impression last season that Dean wanted to be a fireman, though. All those 'up in smoke', 'dreams salvaged from ashes' puns. It never seemed to go anywhere.
Did anyone else take that away from BL,DC?
- by Mike
On the plus side Dean is a far more bearable character to me. I felt like he was in weird character development stasis in season three and especially season four. There were practically no changes to his usual boy adventurer/bad with girls/soft spoken schtick that was there almost from the start of season one. I actually really liked him in season five. Usually sulking characters can be annoying in a different kind of way, but I feel like his reasons for doing so were justified and I liked that he just went "fuck this shit" to his entire life. It's a nice foil to Hank, who wholly embraces how absurd his life is.
Pretty good episode, though they've been getting heavy on the sentiment lately. Did someone quit drinking or something? I think the closing scene's good. Hank has the right idea- being a clone is probably pretty awesome!
And, I believe this is the third season finale where the cocoon's been destroyed. Becoming a pattern here ...
And, I believe this is the third season finale where the cocoon's been destroyed. Becoming a pattern here ...
- by Publius
- (unregistered id: 61509120D4)
Inspiration for Monarch's old house:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krueger_Mansion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krueger_Mansion
- by Adam
- (unregistered id: 5669252D12)
Good episode. Unfortunately, there was a medical mistake. When Dr. Girlfriend asks if Dr. Venture is allergic to epinephrine, they both assume that it is an anesthetic. Unfortunately, epinephrine is not an anesthetic: it's just the chemical name for adrenaline, which is often used to counteract the effects of severe allergic reactions such as anaphylactic shock.
I imagine Dr. Girlfriend was going to give Dr. Venture an epidural injection to provide analgesia for reducing the dislocated hip. In that case, a local anesthetic such as lidocaine or an opioid such as morphine would be appropriate. Epinephrine as an epidural would probably be a terrible thing to do.
Sorry, but once you have a degree in a medical field, that kind of stuff gets to you.
I imagine Dr. Girlfriend was going to give Dr. Venture an epidural injection to provide analgesia for reducing the dislocated hip. In that case, a local anesthetic such as lidocaine or an opioid such as morphine would be appropriate. Epinephrine as an epidural would probably be a terrible thing to do.
Sorry, but once you have a degree in a medical field, that kind of stuff gets to you.
- by Phil
- by DD
- (unregistered id: B404EF09B4)
I got that immediately as well. It bothered the fuck outta me, even without a medical degree (mine is in biology). Did no one working on the show think to say something about that? I imagine that scripts are reviewed extensively; I have no idea how none of the people working on it were familiar with allergy medication. No one there has an EPI-pen?
- by Mr. Monday
- by Captain V Bro.
- (unregistered id: 720B93D9CA)
It's less confusing for people to just say... the SG special counts, and be done with it.
CN gave them money to make ten half hours, so they made ten episodes in a very odd way.
GO TEAM INSANITY!
Jackson and Doc both know they should have signed for 12 half hours, but only make ten episodes/stories, so two of which(the opener and the closer) can both be an hour long each.
LIVE AND LEARN, I guess.
CN gave them money to make ten half hours, so they made ten episodes in a very odd way.
GO TEAM INSANITY!
Jackson and Doc both know they should have signed for 12 half hours, but only make ten episodes/stories, so two of which(the opener and the closer) can both be an hour long each.
LIVE AND LEARN, I guess.
- by Mike
Season 4 was a weird anomaly. It was originally supposed to be 13 episodes in a row (like season 3) but they had to take a break after a bit because they had been working on seasons 3/4 non-stop. So the compromise was to break for a few months after 8 episodes but make 3 extra. Then the season finale got expanded independently which also accounted for it being delayed. Kind of bonkers.
- by Hank
Very strange. 4 Vol. 1 and 4 Vol. 2 are really their own seasons, connected majorly of course, but the two each have arcs that start and resolve in their eight episodes.
4 Vol. 1 had 21 mourning 24, Hatred as bodyguard, and Hank without Brock as the main plots. They had resolutions with Pinstripes and Poltergeists (except for the Hatred storyline, but I'd argue that his arc was a more long term deal with the boys slowly learning to care for Uncle Vatred).
4 Vol. 2 was about 21 unsure of his role in the cocoon, the boys growing up, and general SPHINX stuff.
I still see them as separate seasons in a sense (any time there's a year break I see it as a new season, I think the same for Breaking Bad) due them taking up two box sets on my shelf, but I suppose a renumbering would be cumbersome, confusing, and ultimately necessary. Season 4 is just a bonkers season, really. I mean, the trailer for 4.2 did start with complete confusion about what it should be called.
I'm not sure what my point is or if I even have one.
4 Vol. 1 had 21 mourning 24, Hatred as bodyguard, and Hank without Brock as the main plots. They had resolutions with Pinstripes and Poltergeists (except for the Hatred storyline, but I'd argue that his arc was a more long term deal with the boys slowly learning to care for Uncle Vatred).
4 Vol. 2 was about 21 unsure of his role in the cocoon, the boys growing up, and general SPHINX stuff.
I still see them as separate seasons in a sense (any time there's a year break I see it as a new season, I think the same for Breaking Bad) due them taking up two box sets on my shelf, but I suppose a renumbering would be cumbersome, confusing, and ultimately necessary. Season 4 is just a bonkers season, really. I mean, the trailer for 4.2 did start with complete confusion about what it should be called.
I'm not sure what my point is or if I even have one.
- by R.D.
- (unregistered id: 5199AB43F4)
Ah, so much set-up for next season. Yeah, this episode wasn't a traditional finale for them but I think we should expect something along the awesome lines of How Clean is Your Speedsuit to start off the next season.
One thing I'll say is if Dean suddenly snaps out of his new style and goes back to the same hairstyle and clothing as before I'm going to be unhappy. Hank seemed to grow so much when they gave him Brock's jacket and the shaggy hair, it's still weird to me that he would just revert from there.
I think just in general the stasis in the Venture house gives episodes an emptier feeling, whether that's intentional or not. I love when Rusty criticizes Hank or demands a terrible drink to be made for him, he's really given some freedom to the youngins this season. In a way it sucks because they allow Hank and Dean to age.
I'd love to see Dean start up in community college next season personally. Not for science, just for...something. Anything really.
Beyond that, I'm totally expecting to see The Viceroy side by side with The Monarch as DMTM takes her council spot. How they'll arch is beyond me though.
And it's high time Jonas Jr. comes back if you ask me, for the Captain mostly.
One thing I'll say is if Dean suddenly snaps out of his new style and goes back to the same hairstyle and clothing as before I'm going to be unhappy. Hank seemed to grow so much when they gave him Brock's jacket and the shaggy hair, it's still weird to me that he would just revert from there.
I think just in general the stasis in the Venture house gives episodes an emptier feeling, whether that's intentional or not. I love when Rusty criticizes Hank or demands a terrible drink to be made for him, he's really given some freedom to the youngins this season. In a way it sucks because they allow Hank and Dean to age.
I'd love to see Dean start up in community college next season personally. Not for science, just for...something. Anything really.
Beyond that, I'm totally expecting to see The Viceroy side by side with The Monarch as DMTM takes her council spot. How they'll arch is beyond me though.
And it's high time Jonas Jr. comes back if you ask me, for the Captain mostly.
Something that nobody has seemed to mention yet is that the very FIRST thing we see in the episode is a wing of UFOs flying around the Tangiers airport. There WAS a multiple UFO sighting at a Tangiers airport back in the '70s. Just thought I'd mention it.
http://www.ufo-hunters.com/sightings/search/51439b4c0ad2e1e9be4520ac/UFO%20Sighting%20in%20Tangier%20%28Morocco%29%20on%20Thursday%2011%20November%201976
http://www.ufo-hunters.com/sightings/search/51439b4c0ad2e1e9be4520ac/UFO%20Sighting%20in%20Tangier%20%28Morocco%29%20on%20Thursday%2011%20November%201976
- by Descriptor
- (unregistered id: EC140B15E2)
- by Albino-Code
- (unregistered id: 9BE72A4896)
What nobody on her mentioned is Billy's mom, Rose was on the original Team Venture show...as Triple Threat.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/f497b1108918ef8429ba5889a75ebd17/tumblr_mqd70mmZ2x1saq679o1_500.png
Even her glasses are the same shape as her old mask.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/f497b1108918ef8429ba5889a75ebd17/tumblr_mqd70mmZ2x1saq679o1_500.png
Even her glasses are the same shape as her old mask.
- by Phil
I wondered about that. Action Man says something about lusting after Rose for forty years (I don't remember the exact line, so go easy on me if the details are wrong), but I wasn't sure if that meant Rose was Triple Threat, or if he knew her independently. And on re-watch, I didn't see the resemblance. I see your point about the glasses, though.
If she's not Triple Threat, it raises the question of how the Action Man has known her for forty years. One can only assume that his friends/acquaintances were heroes, super-scientists, villains, etc.
On the other hand, if Rose was indeed Triple Threat, that raises a host of different questions: Does Billy know?; Is that why he's so infatuated with heroing and super-science?; etc.
If she's not Triple Threat, it raises the question of how the Action Man has known her for forty years. One can only assume that his friends/acquaintances were heroes, super-scientists, villains, etc.
On the other hand, if Rose was indeed Triple Threat, that raises a host of different questions: Does Billy know?; Is that why he's so infatuated with heroing and super-science?; etc.
- by marceriksen
- (unregistered id: EB80F913C7)
There are six fingers on Jonas's statue at the last scene. Just sayin'...the inquisitor had six fingers too...
http://i.imgur.com/WkGBuJW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WkGBuJW.jpg
Just an odd thought. After all the personal growth Gary has had this last year and even before when he was General 21 it seems to be that he would be ready to be head-hunted by another villain looking for a good #2. It would be kind of interesting to see how the Monarch would respond to losing his best henchman, or what he'd do to keep Gary around?
- by cpc65
- by Shameface
- (unregistered id: 8E6C1597E3)
Upon second viewing I agree that Rose Whalen is Triple Threat. And with her being a prude and all, I bet what's-his-name, Gentleman's crush, is Mr Whalen. They probably weren't even villains. Billy, Pete, and Orpheus all seemed villainous at first glance.
I think that when the Monarchs usurped Limb's Malice villa Limb took up residence in the Monarch's family home. So Malcolm, Sheila, and Gary are arriving right at Revenge headquarters. I wonder what became of Impossible Industries?
The snapshot. Suppose Malcolm isn't upset about the truck, but sneezing? Rocket and sunchoke at the picnic perhaps?
Who was Flying Squid's lady friend? Possibly Auntie Matter, a likely Sovereign candidate?
I want more. I got the dart monkey on me back. But all in good time.
I think that when the Monarchs usurped Limb's Malice villa Limb took up residence in the Monarch's family home. So Malcolm, Sheila, and Gary are arriving right at Revenge headquarters. I wonder what became of Impossible Industries?
The snapshot. Suppose Malcolm isn't upset about the truck, but sneezing? Rocket and sunchoke at the picnic perhaps?
Who was Flying Squid's lady friend? Possibly Auntie Matter, a likely Sovereign candidate?
I want more. I got the dart monkey on me back. But all in good time.
- by cpc65
- by cpc65
- by policegirl01
Definite spoof of the Captain America/Hulk storyline being used in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Rodney would be Captain America, the perfectly made Super Soldier by Jonas. Jonas dies and no one knows how to make the formula. Fast forward to when they tried to give it a recreated version to Hatred. It didn't work & brings out his darker nature (child molester), like how Bruce Banner turned into the Hulk (thankfully not a child molester).
- by some guy
- (unregistered id: 070EED1832)
i wish monstroso wasnt dead, more orpheus, less shoreleave,the monarch will also have some sort of "rocky" moment being back home now,not enough phantom limb and revenge society,hatred boobs..smh....nobody got time for that. weak episode was venture libre, it would have been better to make an episode with the revenge society, rather than lame-o venturestein
There's a more direct parallel in the Captain America comics, in fact. In the 1950's, a college professor named William Burnside injected himself and a student with a recreated version of the serum and they pretended to be the real Captain America and Bucky. They eventually went crazy and started accusing everybody of being Commies.
Something that I think should be added to the episode guide is an explanation of the "Hench has killed hench" bit.
It's a reference to Battle for the Planet of the Apes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS2-4i3UAMw
It's a reference to Battle for the Planet of the Apes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS2-4i3UAMw
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