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"Momma's Boys" Discussion
Shirt Club: This week's shirt is a Shallow Gravy shirt, as seen in the show!
- by Blixa Barfgold & Homeless Travel Pillow Patsy
- (unregistered id: D64EF29795)
Laughing & laughing...then Benny Hinn ("I've heard the voice of god") shows up...http://isachar-photography.photoshelter.com/image/I0000e7jCJWIdVb0
Pink Floyd quote. Oh maaan..
The escape was completely amazing with all the goofballs. One flew over the cuckoos nest.
Pink Floyd quote. Oh maaan..
The escape was completely amazing with all the goofballs. One flew over the cuckoos nest.
- by policegirl01
- by Mecha-Shiva
- by The Satrap
That was great: taking the name of another of Lovecraft's fictional towns.
In the establishing shot of the Asylum, you can see the name over the gate is spelled DUNWITCH. It might be reading too much into it, but it could be that Hammer & Publick are taking a stance on the pronunciation of everyone's favorite crumbling New England hamlet filled with fish-men: Lovecraft fans are divided over saying it DUNNICH and DUN-WITCH.
In the establishing shot of the Asylum, you can see the name over the gate is spelled DUNWITCH. It might be reading too much into it, but it could be that Hammer & Publick are taking a stance on the pronunciation of everyone's favorite crumbling New England hamlet filled with fish-men: Lovecraft fans are divided over saying it DUNNICH and DUN-WITCH.
- by The Satrap
- by policegirl01
Indeed. Would not be surprised if The Powers That Be have not decided themselves. Sort of one of those fun things to leave unanswered. Hence why in that episode long, long ago, Doc starts to muse, "that's right, I never really did tell you about your mother," then gets interrupted. It is a "fun" thread to leave hanging.
And I think they do this simply to allow further ideas. They did not map out the plots for--what?--ten years? In the commentary for I think the same episode, then noted how they used a generic character for the shadow of Dermott's Mom--some woman they use in a crowd or something--and then noted how people tried to figure out the identity based on the shadow! They had not really decided themselves.
Anyways, half-way through the show I was thinking "Great separate episode that does not have to advance the overall story arcs" . . . then felt "wrong!"
And I think they do this simply to allow further ideas. They did not map out the plots for--what?--ten years? In the commentary for I think the same episode, then noted how they used a generic character for the shadow of Dermott's Mom--some woman they use in a crowd or something--and then noted how people tried to figure out the identity based on the shadow! They had not really decided themselves.
Anyways, half-way through the show I was thinking "Great separate episode that does not have to advance the overall story arcs" . . . then felt "wrong!"
- by The Satrap
Rusty sucks at science, so we know he didn't clone anybody. The boys are leftover bits from something Jonas Sr cooked up ages ago, I'm betting. 'Ever notice how many OSI agents look like Hank? Maybe he's another Super Soldier experiment Rusty got attached to, or made to keep Rusty 2.0 (aka Dean) company.
Or maybe I dreamed this up to make the whole "boinking dad's ex who happens to be my half-brother's mother" a little less creepy. :)
Or maybe I dreamed this up to make the whole "boinking dad's ex who happens to be my half-brother's mother" a little less creepy. :)
- by The Satrap
Not so sure Rusty had nothing to do with them. Remember, Ben told Dean that he, Jonas Sr, "and yes, your father" perfected cloning technology after they had been *given* a perfect genetic map. When are we going to see "Old Man Potter" again anyway?
I now suspect Hank and Dean have no mother: that they are genetic constructs. A bit of Rusty, a bit of Jonas, perhaps a bit of Col. Gentleman, Action Man, et al.
Whatever happened to RUSTY's mother? And is The Monarch Rusty's brother/cousin/clone as well? Look at their noses. Their red beards. Sorry if this is old speculation, i have been obsessed in solitude since being Venturized only four years ago.
I now suspect Hank and Dean have no mother: that they are genetic constructs. A bit of Rusty, a bit of Jonas, perhaps a bit of Col. Gentleman, Action Man, et al.
Whatever happened to RUSTY's mother? And is The Monarch Rusty's brother/cousin/clone as well? Look at their noses. Their red beards. Sorry if this is old speculation, i have been obsessed in solitude since being Venturized only four years ago.
- by Descriptor
- (unregistered id: EC140B15E2)
Myra was going to try to shove Dean back into her, so she could truly give birth to him, implying that she didn't really do so in the first place. Also, heck yeah, Pink Floyd reference. Totally awesome.
As a side note, I missed like the first half of the episode, so I had no idea what was going on. I didn't miss anything too important, did I?
As a side note, I missed like the first half of the episode, so I had no idea what was going on. I didn't miss anything too important, did I?
You can probably figure it from the second half. Dermott and Hank had been using the talking teddy bear via cell phone to keep Rusty occupied while they played gigs. When they stopped using it, Rusty suspected the worst so he and Hatred went searching for By Golly Gulch. Dean had been talking to a girl a lot on the phone (turned out to be Myra, as you saw). To stop Rusty's obsession, Hank and Dermott pretended to be crazy villains to get locked in Dunwich and find the voice of Ted, who'd gone crazy and went supervillain.
- by Phil
Such a good episode. Along with last week's, probably my favorite so far. Love the ones that pick up on plot threads from seasons past. Especially love when A and B (and in this case C) plots merge at the end. I was confused for a minute though, because at first I thought Orpheus knew about Dermott being Doc's kid because he helped the Alchemist see the past with the spell on Dermott's house key, but I guess if Al didn't fill him in on the whole story he had no way to connect the pregnant Nikki in the vision to Dermott.
The Dermott stinger was pretty great too. Now Hank just needs to learn of his clonage and everyone will be on the same page. :-P
And has everyone checked out the shirt for this week yet? Probably the one I'm gonna end up wearing the most.
The Dermott stinger was pretty great too. Now Hank just needs to learn of his clonage and everyone will be on the same page. :-P
And has everyone checked out the shirt for this week yet? Probably the one I'm gonna end up wearing the most.
I think he either had his memory wiped along with Hank in Season 4, or he wanted to tell Dermott but was waiting for the right circumstance to spill the beans. The only other way would be that the Alchemist never told Orpheus that they were trying to find Dermott's father, and Orpheus probably thought the woman was pregnant with Hank and Dean.
He was an actual character this episode! I don't think he's been like that since, well, the last Myra episode.
Ever since Hatred showed up, I'd been really wanting to see him meet Myra, since it was suggested she was a semi-recurring problem for the Venture clan, and actually almost-sorta held up against Brock. This played out so much better, though.
Ever since Hatred showed up, I'd been really wanting to see him meet Myra, since it was suggested she was a semi-recurring problem for the Venture clan, and actually almost-sorta held up against Brock. This played out so much better, though.
- by policegirl01
- by cpc65
- by policegirl01
I don't expect agreement about this, but I hated that episode. I found it to be the one real disappointment in an almost flawless season. I know I'm inviting hateful responses, but here were my problems with it:
First, I love Shallow Gravy and would have loved another half-hour about Hank's and Dermott's delusions of grandeur. Instead, we get a farce about Hank and Dermott teaming up with Gary to spring the voice of Ted out of an asylum. As if even those jackasses couldn't come up with a better way to calm Doc about Ted's disappearance.
Second, I know Doc is often clueless, but his behavior in this episode strained credulity beyond its breaking point. The stuff about Grumpy Bandersnatch and By-Golly Gulch and whatnot--it was just too ridiculous. Doc isn't the world's greatest super-scientist, obviously, but he's smart enough to clone copies of his sons and bring dead henchmen and congresswomen back to life. He's not mentally handicapped.
And finally, the resolution was just insane. Hatred crashes his jeep in a gulch that just happens to be a few feet from the asylum to which Dean and Gary have been committed; things in a riot from which Hank, Dean, and Gary just walk away; etc. I know Doc Hammer rarely wraps things up in a neat package, but I thought the ending here was just plain lazy.
Anyway, there were things that I liked about the episode (e.g., Orpheus, who should be utilized more, in my opinion), but overall, I didn't care for it.
First, I love Shallow Gravy and would have loved another half-hour about Hank's and Dermott's delusions of grandeur. Instead, we get a farce about Hank and Dermott teaming up with Gary to spring the voice of Ted out of an asylum. As if even those jackasses couldn't come up with a better way to calm Doc about Ted's disappearance.
Second, I know Doc is often clueless, but his behavior in this episode strained credulity beyond its breaking point. The stuff about Grumpy Bandersnatch and By-Golly Gulch and whatnot--it was just too ridiculous. Doc isn't the world's greatest super-scientist, obviously, but he's smart enough to clone copies of his sons and bring dead henchmen and congresswomen back to life. He's not mentally handicapped.
And finally, the resolution was just insane. Hatred crashes his jeep in a gulch that just happens to be a few feet from the asylum to which Dean and Gary have been committed; things in a riot from which Hank, Dean, and Gary just walk away; etc. I know Doc Hammer rarely wraps things up in a neat package, but I thought the ending here was just plain lazy.
Anyway, there were things that I liked about the episode (e.g., Orpheus, who should be utilized more, in my opinion), but overall, I didn't care for it.
- by beb off-site
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
Actually I agree with you, except I've found this to be a troubled and troubling season where Jackson and Hammer seem to be rewriting the Venture-mythos and usually for the worse.
Myra as the boy's mother made a lot of sense when first introduced - prior bodyguard, gets a little too close, has babies and goes insane (possible from when Doc presents her with live copies of her death-prone babies). Now Myra's out and there's some other woman (besides Nikki) whom Doc had sex with. Or did he clone the boys from his own DNA and never involved a mother? No, he had a story about their mother that he didn't get around to telling. In any case it's beginning to look as if Doc had had a lot of sex in his mid-20s even though he goes on (and on) about how little sex he's had in his life. It's a total cock-up.
On the other hand, if she knows that Hank and Dean are clones of her original babies then technically she never gave birth to this Dean and her statements in this episode are true if misleading.
Then, of course Dermott had to have known that Docwas his father all along. When he was introduced in the Buddy System he was taken to the Day Camp specifically to meet his father and afterward was asked what he thought of him. That only makes sense if Dermott know which adult at the camp was his father. Now Dermott does says "Are you sure he's my father." And in Dermott's subsequent appearances he acts like a guy who bonded with Hank and doesn't know anything about being Hank's half-brother. But he had to have known.
And while the Teddy Ruxpin gag was cute in "Every which way but Zeus" it really didn't deserve a callback.
Myra as the boy's mother made a lot of sense when first introduced - prior bodyguard, gets a little too close, has babies and goes insane (possible from when Doc presents her with live copies of her death-prone babies). Now Myra's out and there's some other woman (besides Nikki) whom Doc had sex with. Or did he clone the boys from his own DNA and never involved a mother? No, he had a story about their mother that he didn't get around to telling. In any case it's beginning to look as if Doc had had a lot of sex in his mid-20s even though he goes on (and on) about how little sex he's had in his life. It's a total cock-up.
On the other hand, if she knows that Hank and Dean are clones of her original babies then technically she never gave birth to this Dean and her statements in this episode are true if misleading.
Then, of course Dermott had to have known that Docwas his father all along. When he was introduced in the Buddy System he was taken to the Day Camp specifically to meet his father and afterward was asked what he thought of him. That only makes sense if Dermott know which adult at the camp was his father. Now Dermott does says "Are you sure he's my father." And in Dermott's subsequent appearances he acts like a guy who bonded with Hank and doesn't know anything about being Hank's half-brother. But he had to have known.
And while the Teddy Ruxpin gag was cute in "Every which way but Zeus" it really didn't deserve a callback.
- by policegirl01
"[I]t's beginning to look as if Doc had had a lot of sex in his mid-20s even though he goes on (and on) about how little sex he's had in his life."
This wasn't one of my initial problems with the episode, but it's more bothersome the more I think about it. In "Assisted Suicide," we meet The Rusty's id, who hangs out next to a rotating bed containing all of Doc's conquests. And by "conquests," I mean any woman who's ever given Doc the time of day: Tara Quymn, Sally Impossible, Dr. Girlfriend, Myra, the pornstar from "Cupcakes" magazine, Lindsey Wagner . . . . That may be the full list. In any event, the implication is that Doc is VERY sexually inexperienced. Maybe Jackson and Doc can ret-con their way out of this, but it's going to be difficult.
This wasn't one of my initial problems with the episode, but it's more bothersome the more I think about it. In "Assisted Suicide," we meet The Rusty's id, who hangs out next to a rotating bed containing all of Doc's conquests. And by "conquests," I mean any woman who's ever given Doc the time of day: Tara Quymn, Sally Impossible, Dr. Girlfriend, Myra, the pornstar from "Cupcakes" magazine, Lindsey Wagner . . . . That may be the full list. In any event, the implication is that Doc is VERY sexually inexperienced. Maybe Jackson and Doc can ret-con their way out of this, but it's going to be difficult.
- by bfunk
- (unregistered id: CB72E6BDA2)
It's still entirely possible the boys have been clones from the start. All we really have to go on about the boys having a mother that Doc had real life sex with is that "I never told you about her..." line. For all we know he had someone donate eggs and used those to "make" the boys without ever having sex. Knowing Doc it could've started out as a cloning experiment that he couldn't sell once Congress banned the research.
As for Doc being so ridiculously naive...you're not wrong, but then again, as Doc sort of alludes to at one point in the episode, he's seen some weird shit. It's pretty difficult to create an implausible situation for a guy who spent his entire life being chased by dinosaurs, mummies, lunatics in butterfly suits, etc.
As for Doc being so ridiculously naive...you're not wrong, but then again, as Doc sort of alludes to at one point in the episode, he's seen some weird shit. It's pretty difficult to create an implausible situation for a guy who spent his entire life being chased by dinosaurs, mummies, lunatics in butterfly suits, etc.
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
It's never said that the women in Rusty's Invisible Harem are *all* of Doc's conquests (or rather all the women who've given him the time of day, as you say). It could just be that those are the women who are on his mind. Aside from Lindsay Wagner he's met all of the others in the last few years of his life.
Yeah, I guess that's true. If it were all of Doc's conquests, then Nikki would be included. Still, we're meant to understand that Doc is sexually inexperienced, so the list of potential mothers of the boys can't be that long. My guess--based on nothing more than a gut feeling--is that we've already been introduced to the mother at some point.
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
Agreed, although I at least laughed at this one, whereas I thought S.P.H.I.N.X. Rising wasn't funny at all after the acid magnet joke. Both episodes contained gaping plot holes (how had Myra managed to start a cult among the inmates with herself at the centre? If Dr. Mrs. The Monarch knew that Hatred had found the explosives under the compound, why did they still try to activate them?). Also I'm pretty sure Orpheus should know about Dermott being Doc's son, but I'll probably have to watch Everybody Comes to Hank's again to be sure.
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
I suppose it's acceptable that Orpheus didn't know the key he and Al used in their spell at the end of ECtH had come from Dermott, but I do find that fairly far-fetched. I can live with the idea that Al didn't tell him the whole story though; it seemed that he didn't want to know it himself. But then at the end of the episode it's clear that Brock and ShoreLeave know the full story too...
- by Eartha Kite & Dismalicious Winds from Provo
- (unregistered id: D64EF29795)
"how had Myra managed to start a cult among the inmates with herself at the centre?"
If you go to a loony bin, some of the folks in there are pretty malleable. If you are having sex in the restroom 2xs a day with all of them you might end up a cult figure (or if you have a great speaking voice, touch the arm while talking, making eye contact promising treats with a recruiter cooter).
If you go to a loony bin, some of the folks in there are pretty malleable. If you are having sex in the restroom 2xs a day with all of them you might end up a cult figure (or if you have a great speaking voice, touch the arm while talking, making eye contact promising treats with a recruiter cooter).
this one was so out of the box! with some questions answered, new ones spring up. who is the real mom? will dermott now be included in family adventures? is gary starting to miss henching for monarch? did hank knit his hank all by himself?? i love how the episodes written by doc make you scratch your head and force you to rewatch. major plot points are always inserted into the dialogue in a subtle way. also this was hands down the silliest episode. probably written very late at night. hilarious!
You thought so? I thought Dermott's reaction to learning he's a Venture was really out of character. Dermott seems to hate Doc, what with Doc's constant attempts to teach him manners, make him do chores, etc. And Dermott clearly clashes with Dean. The prospect of being related to Doc and Dean should have driven Dermott crazy, but he didn't act like it was a big deal, at all.
Dermott has been looking for a Dad. As you remember, his "Mom"--Grandmom--told Dermott who his Dad was. Unless she lied and said it was Brock, but that would not make sense.
Dermott probably did not believe it, and Doc certainly tried to hide it. He received proof from DoCTOR ORPHEUS!!!1!!
What brother does not fight with his brother.
In other words, great episode. You must now stand in the corner while we throw fish at you.
Dermott probably did not believe it, and Doc certainly tried to hide it. He received proof from DoCTOR ORPHEUS!!!1!!
What brother does not fight with his brother.
In other words, great episode. You must now stand in the corner while we throw fish at you.
"Unless she lied and said it was Brock . . . ."
I think that's exactly what happened. In "Tears of a Sea Cow," we get the scene where Hank and Dermott are camping on the lawn and listening to music. When Dermott finds out that the casette they're listening to is Brock's, his demeanor suddenly changes, and he asks if he can have it. Then later, when he and the Monarch's henchmen confront each other, he says, "Would you believe I'm Brock Samson's long-lost son?" I don't think there's any question we're meant to believe that Dermott has been told Brock is his father, or at least that he has misinterpreted his mom's "You wanna meet your daddy, he's right up the road" to mean that Brock is his father.
And as someone who has brothers, I know that brothers fight. It's different, though, when you don't KNOW the person you're fighting with is your brother. I just think a real reaction would have been surprise or denial or something.
I think that's exactly what happened. In "Tears of a Sea Cow," we get the scene where Hank and Dermott are camping on the lawn and listening to music. When Dermott finds out that the casette they're listening to is Brock's, his demeanor suddenly changes, and he asks if he can have it. Then later, when he and the Monarch's henchmen confront each other, he says, "Would you believe I'm Brock Samson's long-lost son?" I don't think there's any question we're meant to believe that Dermott has been told Brock is his father, or at least that he has misinterpreted his mom's "You wanna meet your daddy, he's right up the road" to mean that Brock is his father.
And as someone who has brothers, I know that brothers fight. It's different, though, when you don't KNOW the person you're fighting with is your brother. I just think a real reaction would have been surprise or denial or something.
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
She told Dermott that his dad could be found at Rusty's Day Camp, but didn't name him, expecting him to meet Doc and realise that he was his father, and instead he got it wrong and assumed it was Brock. Then in Everybody Comes to Hank's he told Hank (off-camera) that Brock was his father - he wasn't lying, he was just genuinely mistaken.
- by kijunshi
- (unregistered id: A3B6538697)
My interpretation of the whole Dr O/Dermott reaction thing...
I am pretty sure that Dr. O remembers the whole truth - he saw the whole thing through the key, if you recall. He probably came when summoned by a Venture brother without realizing it was Dermott, then made a decision on the spot to reveal the truth to him (in his canny magic way). Dr Orpheus is one of the most stand-up characters on the show - he may have figured it was time already for Dermott to know the truth?
And as out-of-character as it seems for Dermott to take all this so calmly, upon further thought it makes a lot of sense. Dermott is desperately searching for his identity through the figure of his missing father - that's been his entire arc. At first, he was told it was Brock, but Hank and Al informed him he was mistaken during the Everybody Comes to Hank's episode. I think it might have been a relief in some ways...? I mean, they did absolutely hate each other during the one episode they interacted in.
Whereas on the other hand, to take on the identity of a Venture Brother means not only to be the literal brother of his best friend in the entire world, but also to be an heir to this awesome (in Dermott's eyes) world of super science and heroes and bad guys. And Doc has already been acting more fatherly toward him than any other man in his life. Frankly Dermott might be getting the best of him in that regard. Dean is... he's hiding in his room all the time so who cares.
Lastly (why do I always do 1000 word comments?), I think that the theme of the episode - mothers - also resonates in this sub-story too. Dermott and Dean are sharply contrasted in their reactions to life-changing secrets being revealed. Dean has been moping and floundering about for this entire season, making worse and worse life choices. Calling up Myra is arguably the nadir, at least at this point. But it's also very illustrative. He took a potential risk with his life - cautious Dean! - because of how much he wanted a mother figure. Whereas Dermott casually accepted the news from Orpheus as a good thing, and a step up in life. Reason being: He already *has* a mother (really his grandmother, but), an involved mother, who loves him and supports him. He even comments off-handedly that she made him sign up for some sort of anti-alcohol thing, which is not something a hands-off parent does. She also picks him up whe he needs a ride, and probably helped him get his job. Dermott has a secure base already, which isn't quite enough, but it's worlds beyond what Dean has. Dean and Hank may be the "heirs" to the world of Venture, but Dermott has the most important thing already... at least from Dean's point of view. Hank is blissfully happy right where he is :)
I am pretty sure that Dr. O remembers the whole truth - he saw the whole thing through the key, if you recall. He probably came when summoned by a Venture brother without realizing it was Dermott, then made a decision on the spot to reveal the truth to him (in his canny magic way). Dr Orpheus is one of the most stand-up characters on the show - he may have figured it was time already for Dermott to know the truth?
And as out-of-character as it seems for Dermott to take all this so calmly, upon further thought it makes a lot of sense. Dermott is desperately searching for his identity through the figure of his missing father - that's been his entire arc. At first, he was told it was Brock, but Hank and Al informed him he was mistaken during the Everybody Comes to Hank's episode. I think it might have been a relief in some ways...? I mean, they did absolutely hate each other during the one episode they interacted in.
Whereas on the other hand, to take on the identity of a Venture Brother means not only to be the literal brother of his best friend in the entire world, but also to be an heir to this awesome (in Dermott's eyes) world of super science and heroes and bad guys. And Doc has already been acting more fatherly toward him than any other man in his life. Frankly Dermott might be getting the best of him in that regard. Dean is... he's hiding in his room all the time so who cares.
Lastly (why do I always do 1000 word comments?), I think that the theme of the episode - mothers - also resonates in this sub-story too. Dermott and Dean are sharply contrasted in their reactions to life-changing secrets being revealed. Dean has been moping and floundering about for this entire season, making worse and worse life choices. Calling up Myra is arguably the nadir, at least at this point. But it's also very illustrative. He took a potential risk with his life - cautious Dean! - because of how much he wanted a mother figure. Whereas Dermott casually accepted the news from Orpheus as a good thing, and a step up in life. Reason being: He already *has* a mother (really his grandmother, but), an involved mother, who loves him and supports him. He even comments off-handedly that she made him sign up for some sort of anti-alcohol thing, which is not something a hands-off parent does. She also picks him up whe he needs a ride, and probably helped him get his job. Dermott has a secure base already, which isn't quite enough, but it's worlds beyond what Dean has. Dean and Hank may be the "heirs" to the world of Venture, but Dermott has the most important thing already... at least from Dean's point of view. Hank is blissfully happy right where he is :)
I think it helps to keep in mind just how full of shit the average Dermott really is. Not just about judo or guitar skills, but his overall demeanor.
Consider the way he acts around Hank, and the fact that he actually manages to hold a job, and follows his (grand)mother's curfew. Deep, deep down, there's a sweet little kid in there.
Consider the way he acts around Hank, and the fact that he actually manages to hold a job, and follows his (grand)mother's curfew. Deep, deep down, there's a sweet little kid in there.
That and I think the Powers That Be modify, adapt, expand characters as they need. For some reason, they loved the Moppets and promoting Sgt. Hatred's pedophilia--they listened to the fan response and diminished both. So Dermott just may have started as the stereotypical neighborhood douche who always has a story and an excuse and found him a useful addition.
Or I am over thinking this again. This is a very nice wine. . . .
Or I am over thinking this again. This is a very nice wine. . . .
That's a fair interpretation. I'm just saying that, for me, Dermott's reaction read as false. That would be a big reveal for any kid, but it would be particularly huge for someone who--as someone pointed out above--is looking for a father. No matter how full of s#!t, I can't imagine a real kid taking things so calmly.
- by Mike
I guess that's possible. But it sure seems like Dermott believed Brock to be his father. In addition to the stuff from "Tears of a Sea Cow," there's "Everybody Comes to Hank's," in which he tells Hank that Brock is his father. It just seemed that Dermott's belief was real, at least initially.
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
It may just be that Dermott now realises he has leverage with the Ventures - he's the oldest brother and the son that Doc abandoned, and if he wants to be selfish about that and milk it then he now has the opportunity. He could even blackmail Doc - I don't know about the statute of limitations in Ventureverse Colorado but is there still a possibility Doc could go down for statutory rape? There's probably still a fair amount of value in the Ventures' land and Jonas Sr.'s legacy.
I'm with you in that Dermott was messing with Doc's head in the post-credits scene. My problem was with the actual reveal (i.e., the Orpheus scene). Dermott barely reacts to the news.
Oh, and I don't think Dermott knows Nikki is his mom. We haven't had any indication that he's learned the truth about that. I'm sure he still thinks his grandmother is his mom.
Oh, and I don't think Dermott knows Nikki is his mom. We haven't had any indication that he's learned the truth about that. I'm sure he still thinks his grandmother is his mom.
Anybody else notice Hank's reference to an old AT&T commecial, Bula Vinaka, Beachside...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECukqY7RaIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECukqY7RaIA
- by Ghobbi
- (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
Another spot! The psychiatrist who performs the Rorschach test on Gary has a very similar character model to that of Sigmund Freud in Escape to the House of Mummies Pt. 2.
Not identical, but the similarity leapt out at me.
Also, one of the people Hank's insane criminal gang threaten is the guy from the bathroom in Studio 54.
Not identical, but the similarity leapt out at me.
Also, one of the people Hank's insane criminal gang threaten is the guy from the bathroom in Studio 54.
- by cpc65
- by cpc65
I will be honest and state up front that this was my least favorite episode of the season so far, but that's just my own take on it. Not saying it was a bad episode, as it wasn't, just not one of my favorites and I probably won't be watching it 3 or 4 times like the other episodes so far. That being said, this was another big character progression episode where a number of people either learn, figure out, or confirm certain facts about themselves and others. It will be interesting to see twisted tapestry that gets woven from all these manic fibers.
- by cpc65
- by cpc65
- by kijunshi
- (unregistered id: A3B6538697)
Awesome episode! I love it when they advance the core mysteries of the show :) Even though for me it was a little bit fast-paced... I had to watch it a few times to really catch everything.
In any case, Myra is not the mother. Hmm. I was firmly in the Myra camp... but, now my other fan theory can come strongly to the fore: The original boys didn't die - their mother just got custody. She and they are living a completely separate life, probably without knowledge that clones were ever made. Which would make Rusty's choices all the more interesting, as the boys literally would not exist in this form without him no matter what... this could only increase Dean's identity issues tenfold! (Hank would think it was totally cool to hang out with an older version of himself, of course.)
In any case, Myra is not the mother. Hmm. I was firmly in the Myra camp... but, now my other fan theory can come strongly to the fore: The original boys didn't die - their mother just got custody. She and they are living a completely separate life, probably without knowledge that clones were ever made. Which would make Rusty's choices all the more interesting, as the boys literally would not exist in this form without him no matter what... this could only increase Dean's identity issues tenfold! (Hank would think it was totally cool to hang out with an older version of himself, of course.)
The unasked question in all this is why did Doc clone the boys in the first place. He never seems happy with the boys, considers them something of an inconvenience. Something really terrible had to have happened for him to go the bother of cloning them in the first place. Having the original boys safe with their real mother would relieve Doc of any need to clone the boys.
- by cpc65
Possibly to all the above--cpc65-kijunshi-TM"H"--but I think Doc has changed. He seemed actually hurt having to abandon Nikki.
Go forward and--somehow--he has kids. As he stated hilariously "if you have an accident prone child, you invest in a helmet, if you have a death prone child, you get a clone." He may have thought a head. I THINK The Powers That Be initially rifted on how "boy adventurers" should have died twice every episode. So if you have clones--solves the problem.
Having clones--going through death rebirth to many times than I can remember--had left him completely cynical. His sons became rather like objects. Kids get annoying when they reach adolescence--suddenly they want freedom and an opinion--and Doc sort of lost his fatherly connection. Of course, at the time, he was really dealing with his own demons wish his father and collection of sociopaths.
Now, after the clones are gone, he seems just a bit more appreciative of them. There is one scene where Dean is dealing with Triana leaving/not being into him, and when Doc normally would just ignore him or send him to do something pointlessly stupid, he stops, thinks, and asks, "Dean? Are you okay?" When he had clones . . . who cares? If something is wrong--get a new one.
Doc also shows a BIT of empathy when Dean is dealing with his testicular torsion.
Now why clone in the first place? Because it is there and it seems to be the one thing he is very good at and seems to be proud of. When he clones the kid killed in his day-camp, he scoffs at Brock about how he fixed all of the severe cancer risks the kid had.
But . . . then . . . I think The Powers That Be write what they need for the humor. Heck, in the commentary for the episode where they are trapped in the Safe Room, TPThatB admit they had gone back and forth deciding which brother is the "smart one" and which is the "dumb one."
Okay . . . "tldnr" sorry.
Go forward and--somehow--he has kids. As he stated hilariously "if you have an accident prone child, you invest in a helmet, if you have a death prone child, you get a clone." He may have thought a head. I THINK The Powers That Be initially rifted on how "boy adventurers" should have died twice every episode. So if you have clones--solves the problem.
Having clones--going through death rebirth to many times than I can remember--had left him completely cynical. His sons became rather like objects. Kids get annoying when they reach adolescence--suddenly they want freedom and an opinion--and Doc sort of lost his fatherly connection. Of course, at the time, he was really dealing with his own demons wish his father and collection of sociopaths.
Now, after the clones are gone, he seems just a bit more appreciative of them. There is one scene where Dean is dealing with Triana leaving/not being into him, and when Doc normally would just ignore him or send him to do something pointlessly stupid, he stops, thinks, and asks, "Dean? Are you okay?" When he had clones . . . who cares? If something is wrong--get a new one.
Doc also shows a BIT of empathy when Dean is dealing with his testicular torsion.
Now why clone in the first place? Because it is there and it seems to be the one thing he is very good at and seems to be proud of. When he clones the kid killed in his day-camp, he scoffs at Brock about how he fixed all of the severe cancer risks the kid had.
But . . . then . . . I think The Powers That Be write what they need for the humor. Heck, in the commentary for the episode where they are trapped in the Safe Room, TPThatB admit they had gone back and forth deciding which brother is the "smart one" and which is the "dumb one."
Okay . . . "tldnr" sorry.
Interview at:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/07/08/venture_bros_creators_doc_hammer_and_jackson_publick_interview_with_exclusive.html
RIP: Boggles the Clue Clown. Is it just me or does this sound Watchman-ish?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/07/08/venture_bros_creators_doc_hammer_and_jackson_publick_interview_with_exclusive.html
RIP: Boggles the Clue Clown. Is it just me or does this sound Watchman-ish?
- by Mike
It's either that or they captured him and faked his death to get the council all in one place. Neither would surprise me though. OSI's methods over the years haven't always been overly benevolent either. The moral ambiguity of everything is part of what makes it so interesting though, since you never really know where things are going.
I've said it before, but it bears repeating: I am just not devious enough to make in the world of secret intelligence. I would never have considered the OSI faking a councilman's death to flush out other council members. I just assumed that the OSI somehow learned of the Clue Clown's death and took the opportunity to snap photos/get some intel. Yours is an interesting hypothesis, though.
I've looked forward to every episode this season, of course, but my anticipation levels are pretty much off the charts for this one.
I've looked forward to every episode this season, of course, but my anticipation levels are pretty much off the charts for this one.
- by AldusValor
I needed to jot something down about the whole of Season V thus far. Season 2 had some big revelations. The identity of the Sovereign and the identity of the boys' mother, would be the biggest among them. For seven years, those truths were universally acknowledged. We held those truths to be self-evident!
I'm not taking anything away from the writing. Undoing both of those reveals in back-to-back episodes the way that they did took some real special talent. Part of me loves this direction.
But there's another part of me. The part that spent the last 10 years of my life memorizing every last detail of every single episode. I've been with this show since the beginning. It's been a huge part of my entire adult life. I love nothing more than to slip lines from the dialogue into normal conversation (ask me sometime about working in "my nipples work as a team.")
For years, I've considered myself an expert. Any piece of trivia, no matter how trivial any piece of speculation, no matter how speculative, I was your man.
But now, if someone asks me, "Who's the boy's mother?"
I'm forced to answer with, "well....."
I'm not taking anything away from the writing. Undoing both of those reveals in back-to-back episodes the way that they did took some real special talent. Part of me loves this direction.
But there's another part of me. The part that spent the last 10 years of my life memorizing every last detail of every single episode. I've been with this show since the beginning. It's been a huge part of my entire adult life. I love nothing more than to slip lines from the dialogue into normal conversation (ask me sometime about working in "my nipples work as a team.")
For years, I've considered myself an expert. Any piece of trivia, no matter how trivial any piece of speculation, no matter how speculative, I was your man.
But now, if someone asks me, "Who's the boy's mother?"
I'm forced to answer with, "well....."
- by cpc65
- by Mike
Myra was never really confirmed as their mother. It was only hard and fast that Doc had sex with her, which doesn't necessarily mean anything outside of that fact. I honestly never answered with a definitive "Myra" if someone asked, just with a "there's this one lady who could maybe be it?"
- by gnormie
- (unregistered id: 5506A87A93)
Going back to the episode where Myra was introduced I always got the feeling Doc was giving out half truths to get the boys off his back. He went out of his way not to confirm or deny Myra was their mother which tells me he wanted the boys to be so confused they stopped asking about their mother.
If he confirmed Myra was their mother then they want to know more about her. If he denied Myra was their mother then they would keep nagging him about who she is. So letting the boys think this crazy woman might be their mother was the perfect solution to avoid the mommy conversation.
If he confirmed Myra was their mother then they want to know more about her. If he denied Myra was their mother then they would keep nagging him about who she is. So letting the boys think this crazy woman might be their mother was the perfect solution to avoid the mommy conversation.
- by RoboCop
- (unregistered id: 720B93D9CA)
This episode fucking rocked.
It had a season two or three vibe to it (in the best possible way, I mean that) and was really fun and well written. And it was a little bit like a "Tick" episode, all the wacky new villain characters, the mental ward, Teddy actually being a real person in a great twist ending.
It actually.. is my favorite of the season!
Go watch it again, and you all will enjoy it better.
Lots of subtle things going on in this one, and even some things that pay heed to the best original episodes.
GO TEAM DIEarreha!!!!!!
It had a season two or three vibe to it (in the best possible way, I mean that) and was really fun and well written. And it was a little bit like a "Tick" episode, all the wacky new villain characters, the mental ward, Teddy actually being a real person in a great twist ending.
It actually.. is my favorite of the season!
Go watch it again, and you all will enjoy it better.
Lots of subtle things going on in this one, and even some things that pay heed to the best original episodes.
GO TEAM DIEarreha!!!!!!
- by cpc65
- by Shameface
- (unregistered id: C5CA7B2632)
I'm thinking Dermott's grandmother is Hank and Dean's mother. He's mentioned the mother being ugly before. And that would only add to her rage: impregnating Nikki. Maybe she's at a boarding school during Grandma and Rusty's romance. He doesn't know this hot fan club president is his lover's 15 year old daughter...it could hold up. And Doc would hit that. So Hank has sex with his full sister. Ick.
- by Shameface
- (unregistered id: 00A4FB581F)
Wonderboy 5 looks a lot like the dearly departed Short Division.
Could there be a link between the 2 fire-themed Australians, Barbie-Q and Torrid?
Monstroso: Enhanced Jonas Sr clone?
Brain in a Jar Councilman: perhaps Jonas himself?
I don't know. I been drinkin. Most likely none of the above. But maybe!
And I want to see some of Triana's education. Get some Hogwarts/Twilight in the Ventureverse.
And I want updates from Gargantua 2 and Spider-Skull Island.
But: the topic at hand. Momma's Boys. I enjoyed it thoroughly. This is a dern entertaining TV show. Combines the derring-do of DuckTales with the attention-paying payoff of Arrested Development with Lost-style gamechangers. I hereby endorse this program!
Could there be a link between the 2 fire-themed Australians, Barbie-Q and Torrid?
Monstroso: Enhanced Jonas Sr clone?
Brain in a Jar Councilman: perhaps Jonas himself?
I don't know. I been drinkin. Most likely none of the above. But maybe!
And I want to see some of Triana's education. Get some Hogwarts/Twilight in the Ventureverse.
And I want updates from Gargantua 2 and Spider-Skull Island.
But: the topic at hand. Momma's Boys. I enjoyed it thoroughly. This is a dern entertaining TV show. Combines the derring-do of DuckTales with the attention-paying payoff of Arrested Development with Lost-style gamechangers. I hereby endorse this program!
- by gnormie
- (unregistered id: 5506A87A93)
My personal theory is that Short Division is the love child of Phantom Limb and Dr. Girlfriend.
My reasoning...
1. He has a stripe in his hair. I think both Hamilton and Sheila have had a stripe in their hair. Sheila back in college when she looked like the girl from Republica. Hamilton when he first got his powers. Short Division looks like Dr. Girlfriend.
2. We never found out Dr. Girlfriend's secret in between seasons 2 and 3.
3. Short Division is an 8 year old who smokes two packs a day and kills his henchmen for cussing.
My reasoning...
1. He has a stripe in his hair. I think both Hamilton and Sheila have had a stripe in their hair. Sheila back in college when she looked like the girl from Republica. Hamilton when he first got his powers. Short Division looks like Dr. Girlfriend.
2. We never found out Dr. Girlfriend's secret in between seasons 2 and 3.
3. Short Division is an 8 year old who smokes two packs a day and kills his henchmen for cussing.
- by Doubting Housetom
- (unregistered id: 6F91577C9C)
The Monarch clears up what her "secret" was when they're in the middle of the Guild's test for duoship (I guess the guild's version of marriage?)
Monarch says something along the lines of "this is the LAST thing I expected you to say!" referring to Sheila registering them for the partnership test. Monarch doesn't like following Guild protocol (but Sheila does) so naturally she didn't tell him about the application.
Monarch says something along the lines of "this is the LAST thing I expected you to say!" referring to Sheila registering them for the partnership test. Monarch doesn't like following Guild protocol (but Sheila does) so naturally she didn't tell him about the application.
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