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Return to Malice Discussion
Welcome back to Malice! Home of many a super villain and also a wonderful potluck every second Thursday. I probably made up that last part. Anyway, here's your weekly discussion thread where you can talk about this week's episode . You guys no doubt know the drill by now, spoilers in the comments, episode is on at midnight easter and pacific, rate the episode on the capsule page, enjoy the show!
Update (11/9 6:55pm) - The episode is up on Adult Swim Video now. Enjoy!
Update (11/9 6:55pm) - The episode is up on Adult Swim Video now. Enjoy!
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: D548A83739)
- by RetroWarbird
- (unregistered id: 3B9A4F2D25)
Strange episode.
This definitely should've been our 2nd episode this season, since it doesn't peak quite as highly as the last two have, but I still enjoyed it. The usually fun dialogue. Dr. Mrs. The Monarch in her underwear the entire time. Henchmen talking about how 21 is like # 1, but keeps the name 21. Still, it was pretty anticlimactic, even while being funny.
24's ghost or possibly still being alive, huh? Nice.
I half-expect 24 to either be faking his death and a member of the Sphinx conspiracy, or else in a surprise twist, his ghost is trying to inform Sphinx when he meets the next person on the checklist - Brock.
This definitely should've been our 2nd episode this season, since it doesn't peak quite as highly as the last two have, but I still enjoyed it. The usually fun dialogue. Dr. Mrs. The Monarch in her underwear the entire time. Henchmen talking about how 21 is like # 1, but keeps the name 21. Still, it was pretty anticlimactic, even while being funny.
24's ghost or possibly still being alive, huh? Nice.
I half-expect 24 to either be faking his death and a member of the Sphinx conspiracy, or else in a surprise twist, his ghost is trying to inform Sphinx when he meets the next person on the checklist - Brock.
- by Agent No
- (unregistered id: 3CCC597331)
perhaps you had to be high, since apparently these are now "stoner series" shows according to adult swim.
but yeah gotta agree. Just felt like it kept building to something but never quite got there. I mean the Ghost of 24 thing was worth a "wait rewind that...." but still it was classic in a lot of ways but strange for the most part.
but yeah gotta agree. Just felt like it kept building to something but never quite got there. I mean the Ghost of 24 thing was worth a "wait rewind that...." but still it was classic in a lot of ways but strange for the most part.
- by the Venturer
- (unregistered id: 20BA929C58)
Are you kidding?! Adult Swim is made for stoners! At least, that's always been my unofficial opinion. Using the Showtime inbetweens and calling it the Stoner Series is just them owning up to that fact, if you ask me.
This episode was another character-driven masterpiece. I love the Monarch in this episode! His heart to heart with 21 was really cool stuff. I like getting into his head in that way. Also, when he told the Moppets off, I laughed my ass off. Doc did good on this one!
This episode was another character-driven masterpiece. I love the Monarch in this episode! His heart to heart with 21 was really cool stuff. I like getting into his head in that way. Also, when he told the Moppets off, I laughed my ass off. Doc did good on this one!
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: C0BBF56792)
I think you guys are taking the "stoner series" joke too seriously. Nothing on AS is meant to be taken seriously really. At the risk of sounding like a "bit of a dick" again I've gotta say that the apparent pretension of some Venture fans is quite off-putting. These comments are kind of like saying VB is "above" stoner comedy or that stoners aren't capable of grasping the subtleties of the humour in the show. Just letting you know you come off sounding a bit like squares and it reminds me of the people who bitch about certain jokes or plot turns as if they are not in-line with the spirit of the show. These people need to write and produce their own shows if they have such a problem with the way Doc and Jackson choose to treat or mistreat their own characters.
- by Agent No
- (unregistered id: 6B1B2A3D78)
There's a difference from being elitist and not wanting associating with something one deems "beneath them" and lumping everyone that supports something into one description.
It'd be like reports of the box office sales for the Michael Jackson doc being described as "Pedophiles come out in full force at the theaters this weekend.." or everyone that goes to a Dave Mathews concert concert being greeted with "Welcome Date Rapists!"
It'd be like reports of the box office sales for the Michael Jackson doc being described as "Pedophiles come out in full force at the theaters this weekend.." or everyone that goes to a Dave Mathews concert concert being greeted with "Welcome Date Rapists!"
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: C0BBF56792)
Haha! Okay, that was pretty funny (and I couldn't agree more when it comes to DMB) but are you seriously lumping stoners in with pedophiles and rapists? That's just retarded. It also doesn't affect the show in any way - its clearly just adult swim's not-so-subtle way of giving a shout out to their main demographic while simultaneously making fun of them AND satirizing AMC/HBO/Showtime/etc. and their self-important pretentious bumpers. Its really pretty hilarious when you actually take the time to think about it.
Oh and being an elitist is EXACTLY "not wanting association with something one deems beneath them".
Oh and being an elitist is EXACTLY "not wanting association with something one deems beneath them".
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: C0BBF56792)
Ohhhh, nevermind - I get it now. It took some (Giantboy) detective work to decode taht first sentence but now I understand.
It still doesn't fly with me though. Adult Swim isn't calling you a stoner, they're just making a joke. Once again - this is a comedy show and its a cartoon. Lets not take anything too seriously now...
It still doesn't fly with me though. Adult Swim isn't calling you a stoner, they're just making a joke. Once again - this is a comedy show and its a cartoon. Lets not take anything too seriously now...
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: C0BBF56792)
Man, some of you people are sensitive! =) Call me a dick all you want! I don't talk down to anyone. We are here to discuss our differing opinions and I wasn't informed that we had to watch what we said and go out of our way to be sensitive to other poster's fragility. Again, my main point is that a bunch of people are bitching about something that actually has nothing to do with the show itself and coming off sounding like a bunch of conservative oldsters.
- by Agent No
- (unregistered id: 590F2E2FA1)
"but are you seriously lumping stoners in with pedophiles and rapists? That's just retarded"
" Its really pretty hilarious when you actually take the time to think about it. "
"I've gotta say that the apparent pretension of some Venture fans is quite off-putting"
I just think it says a lot that this site is full of differing opinion but I've only seen you get called out for being a dick. I've been disagreed with tons here, but you're the only one that talks to me like an arrogant prick. I don't care if you don't agree, and its why people come here. You just can't do it without being a condescending prick it seems.
" Its really pretty hilarious when you actually take the time to think about it. "
"I've gotta say that the apparent pretension of some Venture fans is quite off-putting"
I just think it says a lot that this site is full of differing opinion but I've only seen you get called out for being a dick. I've been disagreed with tons here, but you're the only one that talks to me like an arrogant prick. I don't care if you don't agree, and its why people come here. You just can't do it without being a condescending prick it seems.
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: C0BBF56792)
Okay, this is gonna be my last post on this thread since it's getting WAY too skinny. I just really need to address your points because in none of these moments am I "talking down" to anyone. Lumping people who enjoy smoking weed with criminals the likes of pedophiles and rapists IS retarded. No matter what your stance on drugs is, its just not even close; It IS really hilarious when you think about it! I could see how this sounded mean but I really wasn;t aiming it at you (or anyone in particular). My knee-jerk reaction to the Stoner Series thing was also along the lines of "that's kinda lame". It wasn't until the second time around that I actually GOT it. My observation of the pretentious attitude of some fans also was not aimed at anyone in particular - just the people who somehow think they could do better than Doc and Jackson. You, in my estimation, are not one of these people.
So there you have it, I am sorry if I am confident in my opinions and that comes off as dick-ish (although there was only one person that said that and it was preceded by "bit of a") and I am sorry that you seem so sensitive. At the end of the day I guess I just can;t abide squares. =)
So there you have it, I am sorry if I am confident in my opinions and that comes off as dick-ish (although there was only one person that said that and it was preceded by "bit of a") and I am sorry that you seem so sensitive. At the end of the day I guess I just can;t abide squares. =)
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: C0BBF56792)
Just some food for thought - here is a list of "taboo" subject matter that Jackson and Doc have mined for comedy gold over the past 3+ seasons of VB:
child molestation, child death (including suicide and murder), torturing prostitutes, fetishism, bestiality, drug abuse, chronic masturbation, kidnapping, homophobia, prison rape, organ harvesting, dog fighting, mental retardation, infidelity and more.
and you guys are offended that they are associating the show with... stoners!!!? *gasp* heaven forbid. that is stopping pretty low ;)
Jokes, people. Comedy show.
child molestation, child death (including suicide and murder), torturing prostitutes, fetishism, bestiality, drug abuse, chronic masturbation, kidnapping, homophobia, prison rape, organ harvesting, dog fighting, mental retardation, infidelity and more.
and you guys are offended that they are associating the show with... stoners!!!? *gasp* heaven forbid. that is stopping pretty low ;)
Jokes, people. Comedy show.
- by Jory
- (unregistered id: 397CA99F6F)
Huh, that was really something. I was fascinated by the way the episode's action potential fizzled out before anything explosive could happen. It became basically just sets of characters having a series of "heart-to-hearts". Really good stuff.
And that ending was pretty slick. We'll see...
And that ending was pretty slick. We'll see...
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 3D0FBFE5CB)
Wow! I didn't catch it the first time, but that was NOT 21 who checked off The Ventures on the suspects list on the wall. 21 came through the door a second later and didn't see whoever it was. Could they be hiding in the top bunk that had the cover down, or maybe went through a secret door, or can possibly turn invisible?
- by The Mysterious 'H'
- (unregistered id: 2B2DEC558B)
That was suprisingly sweet, and I liked it. It sort of reminds me of Tears Of A Sea Cow minus Dermott. I preferred 21's second name for the plan, Operation Rising Dragon or something like that. The list was pretty good, liked that. I can relate to Gary, minus the whole abducted by guys in butterfly suits thing. Also, glad to see the Monarch's finally put his foot down with the moppets.
Oh, and way to go Pvt. Schwa!!! What an honor.
Oh, and way to go Pvt. Schwa!!! What an honor.
- by The Mysterious 'H'
- (unregistered id: 2B2DEC558B)
One more thing- I've been trying to remember where else I've seen that robot whose logic Hatred overloaded with the chicken fingers question ever since I saw him explode, and I think I've got it. It's the same face as the paperboy in Home Is Where The Hate Is, possibly even the same robot with a change of clothes.
- by Steve
- (unregistered id: 195BA6AFC9)
I like how the Monarch got the Moppets to cower, but I wish he'd been a little more evil with his description of what he'd do to them. After all, he's the guy who killed one of his own henchmen, replaced his blood with acid, threw his body in a shark tank, and tossed in a giant hairdryer (from Trial of the Monarch, season 1). I would have loved to have heard him going on and on about how brutal he'd be while cutting them up and feeding their parts to starving dogs. The Monarch has a reputation to uphold, after all.
- by Big Jim
- (unregistered id: 3B0F483F4E)
Anyone else notice in the scene where 21 is talking to the skull of 24 that each time 21 said something to the skull we heard a weird shrill chime as a response to his comment. Wonder if this means something crazy and supernatural is happening. Or if its just something in 21's head?
- by Agent No
- (unregistered id: 3CCC597331)
After watching again I have a theory that I'll leave out there. Remember in the season premiere when the OSI guys are chasing the invisible man down? 21 is not crazy, SOMEONE is communicating with him and taking out revenge using stolen or created tech. My guess is Phantom Limb, and he is also the one that detonated the explosion and is the reason we see the Sovereign hiding in a later episode.
- by The Mysterious 'H'
- (unregistered id: 2B2DEC558B)
I'm still a bit skeptical. He seemed to be more of a misdirection than anything else. He'll probably come up again but not in as important of a role as is being speculated.
As for the chime, I think it's just a musical representation of 21's insanity. He's definitely dangerous now, but still unfocused. I can see him playing a big part in the end of this half of the season.
As for the chime, I think it's just a musical representation of 21's insanity. He's definitely dangerous now, but still unfocused. I can see him playing a big part in the end of this half of the season.
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 0C56B4C973)
Yeah, but he didn't set it off. He was on the ground all dizzy when the bomb went off. Saying The Monarch killed 24 is like saying Chevy killed someone because they built the car the person was driving when it got hit by a train. The Moppets were the only ones not seen outside at the battle. And the remote detonator was last seen on Dr. Mrs. The Monarch's throne when she ran outside.
- by Agent No
- (unregistered id: 590F2E2FA1)
I don't think it will be THAT invisible man necessarily. Rather someone using the "tech" he used or who has similarly gone through whatever "they (OSI) did to him".
As for my Limb theory, I think it makes sense why he'd target The Ventures or at least support/encourage 21 to do that. Limb knows the Guild Laws (like Hatred) and figured if 21 went through with it Monarch would become hunted by The Guild too. As for Brock being #2, maybe hoping to convince Samson to join him to fight Monarch & The Sovereign, since Limb & Brock share a sort of respect for each other as foes.
As for my Limb theory, I think it makes sense why he'd target The Ventures or at least support/encourage 21 to do that. Limb knows the Guild Laws (like Hatred) and figured if 21 went through with it Monarch would become hunted by The Guild too. As for Brock being #2, maybe hoping to convince Samson to join him to fight Monarch & The Sovereign, since Limb & Brock share a sort of respect for each other as foes.
- by Hardy
- (unregistered id: FFF530337A)
The humor is all still there....just tongue in cheek.
21 rolling around the boys room acting like his fingers are a gun
Dean's erection
moppets being fed under the table
Sgt. Hatred reading Dean's books and crying out "What would Giant Boy Detective Do?!"
Sgt. Hatred confusing the robot with nonsense
21's names for his plan
21 talking to a skull
21 assuming the water torture would quickly drive someone insane
Sgt. Hatred's comment about Rusty wearing briefs
The Monarch calling Dr. Girlfriend to confirm she knew he hung up on her and then hanging up on her again (priceless)
etc. etc. etc.
There was a lot of good.
21 rolling around the boys room acting like his fingers are a gun
Dean's erection
moppets being fed under the table
Sgt. Hatred reading Dean's books and crying out "What would Giant Boy Detective Do?!"
Sgt. Hatred confusing the robot with nonsense
21's names for his plan
21 talking to a skull
21 assuming the water torture would quickly drive someone insane
Sgt. Hatred's comment about Rusty wearing briefs
The Monarch calling Dr. Girlfriend to confirm she knew he hung up on her and then hanging up on her again (priceless)
etc. etc. etc.
There was a lot of good.
- by clayton
- (unregistered id: 1BB709F5A6)
Yet another great episode this season:
24 possibly alive in some form
the monarch laying down the law for the moppets
seeing normal 21 transform into "psycho killer" 21
But did anyone else feel that Dr.venture and Dr.girlfriend were flirting with each other when they were at the observatory scene?
24 possibly alive in some form
the monarch laying down the law for the moppets
seeing normal 21 transform into "psycho killer" 21
But did anyone else feel that Dr.venture and Dr.girlfriend were flirting with each other when they were at the observatory scene?
- by Jory Again
- (unregistered id: 397CA99F6F)
Oh, wait... there it was, in the closing scene, prominently featured in 24's hands. I guess it really DID happen, but probably the next day, when the Monarch's shoot was scheduled. The timeframe doesn't make any sense no matter which way you look at it, but the magazine wouldn't magically be printed that same night anyway, so...
Great episode anyway.
Great episode anyway.
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 0C56B4C973)
Doc is certainly into her, but she's made it clear in their last two meetings that she's not interested in him. I don't think that's suddenly changed, but she was probably being nicer to him this time because of what's happening and because Doc isn't trying to come on too strong this time.
- by Red Menace
- (unregistered id: A4D2FB9244)
While I am thrilled to have the show back and really enjoying the episodes, I am having more and more of a problem with the animation. They seem to have acquired these overly round, disneyesque features at times IE Hunchback Deans' Smile, Allergy Monarch etc. Not bitching, I just prefer their old harder look.
Love 21 talking to the skull
Love 21 talking to the skull
- by Jory
- (unregistered id: E2A0D77274)
You have a problem with the designs and the drawings, not the animation. Unless you're a fan of the much more static and tweened look of season one, it's hard to argue that the actual animation isn't better than ever.
That said, I can understand how the new designs wouldn't be to taste, but the characters are simply better- and more carefully- modeled and structured than ever before, particularly Brock, whose head design was completely flat and frankly pretty stupid-looking, in retrospect. In fact, Jackson has said that before Season 2 Brock didn't even have a real model and the construction was just made up to fit the layouts.
The show's style is still extremely "hard" and linear where it counts, but the balance between rounded and straight lines is much more controlled, now. The compositions, layouts, and character construction are stronger than ever; while still retaining a pretty unique look, the inking and design are closer than ever to the Alex Toth projects which are arguably the series' main inspiration-- with animation, color design, and production quality worlds beyond anything those shows could have ever hoped for.
Not trying to bicker or devalue your opinion, though. It's just that I feel that the show looks better every episode, and for pretty objective reasons. The artists on this show impress the hell out of me.
That said, I can understand how the new designs wouldn't be to taste, but the characters are simply better- and more carefully- modeled and structured than ever before, particularly Brock, whose head design was completely flat and frankly pretty stupid-looking, in retrospect. In fact, Jackson has said that before Season 2 Brock didn't even have a real model and the construction was just made up to fit the layouts.
The show's style is still extremely "hard" and linear where it counts, but the balance between rounded and straight lines is much more controlled, now. The compositions, layouts, and character construction are stronger than ever; while still retaining a pretty unique look, the inking and design are closer than ever to the Alex Toth projects which are arguably the series' main inspiration-- with animation, color design, and production quality worlds beyond anything those shows could have ever hoped for.
Not trying to bicker or devalue your opinion, though. It's just that I feel that the show looks better every episode, and for pretty objective reasons. The artists on this show impress the hell out of me.
- by Chris98vf
- (unregistered id: C668D0EDEC)
I completely agree. Not only all that was said above but over time the budgets get bigger and they can spend more than in season 1,2, ect...
Also, they did say the characters are aging now and that can be seen in growth of character and such and more specifically the boys who are physically growing past age 16.
This only being season 4 and the artwork to improve this much is great. Look back at season 1 of any of your favorite cartoons, the art was nowhere near season 5 or where ever. Look at the Simpsons or Family Guy to name a few well known ones.
Also, they did say the characters are aging now and that can be seen in growth of character and such and more specifically the boys who are physically growing past age 16.
This only being season 4 and the artwork to improve this much is great. Look back at season 1 of any of your favorite cartoons, the art was nowhere near season 5 or where ever. Look at the Simpsons or Family Guy to name a few well known ones.
- by Jory
- (unregistered id: CF81B6A46C)
It sure is classic material, and I think it is definitely a highlight of those early episodes. They were at least able to employ the series' then much-more-extremely-limited style to humorous effect in that scene, with Molotov's high kicks, etc., but I never felt like the scene was very exciting because of how obviously jokey it is. I also wish that episode didn't inexplicably look terrible on the DVD.
The show has obviously changed a lot since then and its stance on action vs. comedy has clearly dissolved a bit, but personally I think the most exciting action scenes they've ever done are the finale of Showdown at Cremation Creek, the chase with Herr Trigger, and the whole SWAT invasion/peoplemover chase from Perchance to Dean.
The show's direction has gradually become (to me) less about weird comic syncopation and instead focused on half-believable, anecdotal humor and carefully-crafted set-pieces, which is fairly awesome (especially since they're doing a better job of it now than in Season 3.) Still, I think part of what makes Return to Malice so interesting is the way it inverts the show's newer edge yet again by belying the obvious frenetic potential of the episode's rising action by making the second half of the episode become mostly depressing dialogue.
The show has obviously changed a lot since then and its stance on action vs. comedy has clearly dissolved a bit, but personally I think the most exciting action scenes they've ever done are the finale of Showdown at Cremation Creek, the chase with Herr Trigger, and the whole SWAT invasion/peoplemover chase from Perchance to Dean.
The show's direction has gradually become (to me) less about weird comic syncopation and instead focused on half-believable, anecdotal humor and carefully-crafted set-pieces, which is fairly awesome (especially since they're doing a better job of it now than in Season 3.) Still, I think part of what makes Return to Malice so interesting is the way it inverts the show's newer edge yet again by belying the obvious frenetic potential of the episode's rising action by making the second half of the episode become mostly depressing dialogue.
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: 1810A2A1DF)
Yeah, Malice is a very Doc Hammer type of episode in that way. He seems to tend towards more wordy types of episodes. Tag Sale, Your It was possibly the first episode to showcase this and while that episode does have an action sequence at the end it's 95% just characters talking to each other and it's one of the best episodes of the series. Victor Echo November is the same way, it's a ton of dialogue all building up to the shit hitting the fan.
And the great part about those two episodes is you, as a viewer, know the shit is going to hit the fan, you just have to wait to see when it will happen and what will come from it.
What makes Return to Malice so interesting is it's the same style, but nothing ever explodes at the end, and I think maybe that's why some people are a little disappointed in it. It all makes sense 100% and honestly I can't even see how it could ever end with an explosion. It's very much a characterization of the Monarch's life and the random shit they have to deal with when they're not actually arching.
That's another thing I love about the show, is how it's clearly about this group of ridiculous people; adventurers, super scientists, secret agents, super villains, and so on, but half the time it's just about their regular lives when they're not off doing the thing you'd expect them to be doing.
And the great part about those two episodes is you, as a viewer, know the shit is going to hit the fan, you just have to wait to see when it will happen and what will come from it.
What makes Return to Malice so interesting is it's the same style, but nothing ever explodes at the end, and I think maybe that's why some people are a little disappointed in it. It all makes sense 100% and honestly I can't even see how it could ever end with an explosion. It's very much a characterization of the Monarch's life and the random shit they have to deal with when they're not actually arching.
That's another thing I love about the show, is how it's clearly about this group of ridiculous people; adventurers, super scientists, secret agents, super villains, and so on, but half the time it's just about their regular lives when they're not off doing the thing you'd expect them to be doing.
- by Jory
- (unregistered id: D2BE6778A1)
Surely. Especially on second viewing, the episode's dialogue and character really pop. The dialogues between Dr.V and Hatred, Dr. V and Dr. G, Monarch and 24; even the surprisingly haunting rainfall scene outside Princess Tiny Feet's house are way more compelling (to me) than any Brock Samson killing spree--entertaining as those really, really are.
I think Brock's absence is a great opportunity for the show, and obviously one both Doc and Jackson are excited about. He may have landed a shitty gig, but bodyguarding was at least one that Brock was exceptionally good at. Without him, these larger-than-life characters seem just a little bit smaller but retain some of their absurdity, which makes the episode's moments of genuine pathos hit home quite well without seeming too canned.
I think Brock's absence is a great opportunity for the show, and obviously one both Doc and Jackson are excited about. He may have landed a shitty gig, but bodyguarding was at least one that Brock was exceptionally good at. Without him, these larger-than-life characters seem just a little bit smaller but retain some of their absurdity, which makes the episode's moments of genuine pathos hit home quite well without seeming too canned.
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: C0BBF56792)
A shapeshifting Nightshade, in this situation, is most likely referring to the creature from D&D but could also be referring to the DC comics villain of the same name. I would think that since 21 made the list it would be a reference to something nerdy like that as opposed to another character in the Venture universe.
- by Joey Michaels
- (unregistered id: 160A2B8EB8)
I felt like Sgt. Hatred kind of blossomed as a character in this one. Its the first time I've really genuinely enjoyed him.
My favorite exchange was the masturbation exchange between Hatred and Dr. Venture. The "needless shame" comment had me laughing loudly, as did the "if anyone knows about abducting teenage boys from their beds, its old Sgt. Hated."
Anyhow, nice that they took some time to make him a little mrore 3D.
My favorite exchange was the masturbation exchange between Hatred and Dr. Venture. The "needless shame" comment had me laughing loudly, as did the "if anyone knows about abducting teenage boys from their beds, its old Sgt. Hated."
Anyhow, nice that they took some time to make him a little mrore 3D.
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: 1810A2A1DF)
Yeah, I like how it's completely unapologetic and almost brutally honest. Obviously with his past of drinking and smoking and... young boys... he's a very "do it if it feels good" kinda guy, but he doesn't seem to have any shame or regrets really. It's a very entertaining change going from Brock to him. Not that I don't miss Brock, but they picked someone possibly even more extreme to replace him.
- by Tess
- (unregistered id: F689646DF2)
It's interesting to see a FOIL exist for a character that isn't even in the show very often right now. (I see Hatred as a foil to brock, but interesting because they never interact.) It's like I am filling in the blanks and making up totally new episodes in my head: If Brock were here, this is what he would have done instead, etc.
- by Chris98vf
- (unregistered id: C668D0EDEC)
I have a feeling that there is a ghost of 24 and Gary will ask Dr. Orpheus to intervene somehow. After this somehow it will be known that Orpheus can take a soul and import it into a corporeal form (clone) and he will ask Dr. Venture again to make a clone of 24. What I can't figure out is how these 2 sciences/religions will become known to Gary as being possible. If you recall the 1st ep of season 2 Orpheus was looking for the boys souls to put back into their dead bodies as this is within his powers, unlike what 21 asked him to do at the begining of this season. Just my $0.02
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 0C56B4C973)
But the clones only grow at the same rate as a normal person. How old is / was 24? It will take that many years to grow a clone that's physically the same age. Otherwise Doc Venture could make new Hank and Dean clones and have them be 17 in no time at all. It's why Doc told 21 if he made a 24 clone it would be an infant.
- by The Mysterious 'H'
- (unregistered id: 2B2DEC558B)
Yes, but we're ignoring an important fact- couldn't Orpheus put the soul into another body? There are more than enough guys getting killed and several of them are physically similiar to 24. I'm sure they could find a whole enough body for 24 to enter. And even if it wasn't someone who looks like him, it would still be the same personality.
- by Angsthasepfeffernasecephalic
- (unregistered id: FCB5236B6F)
anyone get the feeling that the brothers are becoming ok with being tied up. so...one day they are going to expect that from their partners.
2 ton 24 is getting ready for a full fledged hallucinated 'buddy' like in 6' under and dexter.
Hatred=do it til it feels good. well put, no shame.
"HAPPENSTANCE"?
2 ton 24 is getting ready for a full fledged hallucinated 'buddy' like in 6' under and dexter.
Hatred=do it til it feels good. well put, no shame.
"HAPPENSTANCE"?
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 3D0FBFE5CB)
I tried to post a comment and it said I was flagged as a potential spammer? What?! I used "VB code" and too many URL's? What the hell is VB code? And I only had one URL. Will my post be put up once they determine I'm not a spambot, or will I have to type it out all over again? Eat at Joe's.
- by Grethiwha
- (unregistered id: E22C4F2CF3)
That was a friggen awesome episode, it was great to see 21's full story, and the Sgt Hatred parts were very amusing. I liked this episode more than the last two, it's probably my favourite of the season so far.
Also, I couldn't help but notice Dr. Girlfriend's underwear looked kinda drawn-on over the original... I'm pretty sure she'll be naked in the DVD release. :p
Also, I couldn't help but notice Dr. Girlfriend's underwear looked kinda drawn-on over the original... I'm pretty sure she'll be naked in the DVD release. :p
- by marceriksen
- (unregistered id: 168969AEA8)
I'm going to continue my prediction from season 3 (from Home is Where the Hate is) that Dr. Mrs. The Monarch is planning on making a come back and used / is using The Phantom Limb and Dr. Monarch to give her leverage so she can arch on her own (hence her being on the cover of the magazine at the end of this episode).
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 0C56B4C973)
Some observations here, some of which I've already posted when I replied to other's comments. I tried posting this yesterday but got flagged as a potential spammer. Is the OSI running this site?
*Sgt. Hatred making the android guard short out by talking crazy nonsense stuff is known as pulling a Kirk. As in Captain Kirk.
The mirror phone thing in the Monarch's house reminded me of the scene from “The Year Without a Santa Claus†where Heat Miser and Snow Miser were talking over the phone to one another. They even had the fancy looking phones.
* I really liked the scene near the end where Doc Venture and Dr. Mrs. The Monarch are talking outside the observatory (that shoots lasers), and it starts raining. I agree that she may not be actually flirting with him. She perhaps is just being nice to him to smooth things over because of the boys being kidnapped and all. She was certainly being friendlier to him than the last two times they talked, though that may also be because Doc isn’t trying to come on too strong to her this time around. I love the way she made those little poses while talking and how she playfully reached out to feel the raindrops as Doc was calling Hank on the two-way. What a great animation touch! And I totally agree with RetroWarbird. Any episode with her mostly in her pink bra and panties is at the tops of my list. I don’t usually get the hots for cartoon women, except for a few hentai babes, but she would definitely be in my top five list of sexiest animated honeys.
* I think there was some old b&w horror movie where this guy would talk to a skull and would hear it talking back to him, telling him what to do, or who to kill. This was represented onscreen by a weird chime like noise such as we heard here with 21. I'm still not convinced that's 24's skull though.
*When we saw the Monarch's bloated face, for some reason Garry Shandling came to mind. Probably just me. Sorry Garry!
See this photo at http://us.imdb.com/media/rm687508992/nm0788009
*Scorpio “The King of Sting†made the cover of Modern Enemy Monthly on the issue 21 is reading in the tree fort. This was most likely from before he got pummeled by Capt. Sunshine. Check out the ad on the back cover. You can apparently buy and Astro Ray Gun made by none other than Astro Base Go! If they printed for real an actual issue of this mag for purchase, specifically the one with Dr. Mrs. The Monarch in it, would anyone else buy a copy? They could even have adds for dart guns, torture devices, defensive traps for your lair and such. It would be great!
*Hey Pvt. Schwa, if you’re reading this, how did your rehearsal for Oklahoma go with Princess Tinyfeet? You dawg!
“Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!â€
*Sgt. Hatred making the android guard short out by talking crazy nonsense stuff is known as pulling a Kirk. As in Captain Kirk.
The mirror phone thing in the Monarch's house reminded me of the scene from “The Year Without a Santa Claus†where Heat Miser and Snow Miser were talking over the phone to one another. They even had the fancy looking phones.
* I really liked the scene near the end where Doc Venture and Dr. Mrs. The Monarch are talking outside the observatory (that shoots lasers), and it starts raining. I agree that she may not be actually flirting with him. She perhaps is just being nice to him to smooth things over because of the boys being kidnapped and all. She was certainly being friendlier to him than the last two times they talked, though that may also be because Doc isn’t trying to come on too strong to her this time around. I love the way she made those little poses while talking and how she playfully reached out to feel the raindrops as Doc was calling Hank on the two-way. What a great animation touch! And I totally agree with RetroWarbird. Any episode with her mostly in her pink bra and panties is at the tops of my list. I don’t usually get the hots for cartoon women, except for a few hentai babes, but she would definitely be in my top five list of sexiest animated honeys.
* I think there was some old b&w horror movie where this guy would talk to a skull and would hear it talking back to him, telling him what to do, or who to kill. This was represented onscreen by a weird chime like noise such as we heard here with 21. I'm still not convinced that's 24's skull though.
*When we saw the Monarch's bloated face, for some reason Garry Shandling came to mind. Probably just me. Sorry Garry!
See this photo at http://us.imdb.com/media/rm687508992/nm0788009
*Scorpio “The King of Sting†made the cover of Modern Enemy Monthly on the issue 21 is reading in the tree fort. This was most likely from before he got pummeled by Capt. Sunshine. Check out the ad on the back cover. You can apparently buy and Astro Ray Gun made by none other than Astro Base Go! If they printed for real an actual issue of this mag for purchase, specifically the one with Dr. Mrs. The Monarch in it, would anyone else buy a copy? They could even have adds for dart guns, torture devices, defensive traps for your lair and such. It would be great!
*Hey Pvt. Schwa, if you’re reading this, how did your rehearsal for Oklahoma go with Princess Tinyfeet? You dawg!
“Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!â€
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 0C56B4C973)
Oh yeah. One more thing, as if my post above wasn't long enough. Possible minor continuity error. In this episode, the door to the right of The Monarch's bed (from our perspective) is the bathroom. I’m fairly certain that was the door to the hallway in “Home is Where the Hate isâ€. When The Monarch grudgingly gave permission for the Moppets to sleep in the house instead of the cocoon, Dr. Mrs. The Monarch called to them and they came in through that same door carrying their cat bed thing.
- by Grethiwha
- (unregistered id: E22C4F2CF3)
I noticed the Astro Ray Gun, they put it on the astrobasego website after shirt club ended last season for anybody to print out:
http://www.astrobasego.com/images/raygun.jpg
http://www.astrobasego.com/images/raygun.jpg
- by Heat Death
- (unregistered id: 0F1E1FE485)
I assumed the nose pimple/ allergic reaction were two separate things. The Monarch's complaining about his nose right before he goes into the bathroom was probably just a red herring for the viewers.
On a completely unrelated subject, is anyone else in awe with the direction that Jackson, et. al have taken the show this season? The removal of the boys' "safety net" and their sudden, unplanned entrance into adulthood magnifies the themes that have been building since the first time we saw them die. The idea of stagnation (whether from apathy, ineptitude, or forced) that became the hallmark of VB has been subsumed by something awesome.
I'm glad I've been watching since the pilot, and I have no regrets about the end. FORWARD THE FUTURE!
On a completely unrelated subject, is anyone else in awe with the direction that Jackson, et. al have taken the show this season? The removal of the boys' "safety net" and their sudden, unplanned entrance into adulthood magnifies the themes that have been building since the first time we saw them die. The idea of stagnation (whether from apathy, ineptitude, or forced) that became the hallmark of VB has been subsumed by something awesome.
I'm glad I've been watching since the pilot, and I have no regrets about the end. FORWARD THE FUTURE!
- by Jory
- (unregistered id: 397CA99F6F)
Yup. I've said it elsewhere, but the direction the show has taken this season has been really riveting, especially since (no offense to J&D) the show has been much more tightly written, edited, and directed this season than the (personally) slightly lackluster season 3. Bring it on!
- by Red Menace
- (unregistered id: A4D2FB9244)
coming up
405 The Revenge Society 11/15/09
The Guild of Calamitous Intent comes under attack from an old foe with a new name, Revenge. Revenge’s hunt for the all-powerful Orb brings the entire Guild to the front door of the Venture Compound, where they must face the combined might of Sgt. Hatred and Hank Venture.
405 The Revenge Society 11/15/09
The Guild of Calamitous Intent comes under attack from an old foe with a new name, Revenge. Revenge’s hunt for the all-powerful Orb brings the entire Guild to the front door of the Venture Compound, where they must face the combined might of Sgt. Hatred and Hank Venture.
- by mogo
- (unregistered id: 8E6E68ED59)
where did you see it? and I can't belive it. How could one man worry an entire army of super villans? I know the orbs powerful but I think the fact it;s called the revenge society means that phantom limb/revenge won't be alone. and hank and hatred won't do dick. I'm sorry but hank's just starting his awesome training and hatred's comicly inept. they won't do dick against the guild. The guild and the society will but heads and the ventures are just in the middle.
- by Angsthasepfeffernasecephalic
- (unregistered id: 0ED2579A67)
tanking down the guild might be easier than you think:
A new bio of the Thin White Duke is going to include discussion of the occult's role in Bowie's post-Young American meltdown. From Starpulse:
In the book, Spitz writes, "While planning the follow-up to "Young Americans" (album), Bowie would sit in the house with a pile of high-quality cocaine atop the glass coffee table, a sketch pad and a stack of books. Psychic Self Defense was his favorite. Its author describes the book as a 'safeguard for protecting yourself against paranormal malevolence.' Using this and more arcane books on witchcraft, white magic and its malevolent counterpart, black magic, as rough guides to his own rapidly fragmenting psyche, Bowie began drawing protective pentagrams on every surface."
Bowie told the author, "I'd stay up for weeks. Even people like Keith Richards were floored by it. And there were pieces of me all over the floor. I paid with the worst manic depression of my life. My psyche went through the roof, it just fractured into pieces. I was hallucinating 24 hours a day."
Spitz adds, "Increasingly Bowie was convinced there were witches after his semen. They were intent on using it to make a child to sacrifice to the devil, essentially the plot to Roman Polanski's 1968 supernatural classic Rosemary's Baby."
A friend hooked Bowie up with New York-based white witch Walli Elmlark.
The author adds, "Elmlark quickly and successfully exorcised the pool. Angie (Bowie), who was living there at the time, noted that it started to bubble and smoke, and that it only rained outside David's window while the rest of the L.A. sky was clear. Elmlark wrote a series of spells and incantations out for Bowie as he continued to wrestle with the forces of darkness."
A new bio of the Thin White Duke is going to include discussion of the occult's role in Bowie's post-Young American meltdown. From Starpulse:
In the book, Spitz writes, "While planning the follow-up to "Young Americans" (album), Bowie would sit in the house with a pile of high-quality cocaine atop the glass coffee table, a sketch pad and a stack of books. Psychic Self Defense was his favorite. Its author describes the book as a 'safeguard for protecting yourself against paranormal malevolence.' Using this and more arcane books on witchcraft, white magic and its malevolent counterpart, black magic, as rough guides to his own rapidly fragmenting psyche, Bowie began drawing protective pentagrams on every surface."
Bowie told the author, "I'd stay up for weeks. Even people like Keith Richards were floored by it. And there were pieces of me all over the floor. I paid with the worst manic depression of my life. My psyche went through the roof, it just fractured into pieces. I was hallucinating 24 hours a day."
Spitz adds, "Increasingly Bowie was convinced there were witches after his semen. They were intent on using it to make a child to sacrifice to the devil, essentially the plot to Roman Polanski's 1968 supernatural classic Rosemary's Baby."
A friend hooked Bowie up with New York-based white witch Walli Elmlark.
The author adds, "Elmlark quickly and successfully exorcised the pool. Angie (Bowie), who was living there at the time, noted that it started to bubble and smoke, and that it only rained outside David's window while the rest of the L.A. sky was clear. Elmlark wrote a series of spells and incantations out for Bowie as he continued to wrestle with the forces of darkness."
- by roscoe
- (unregistered id: 3575AEFCB1)
There seems to be a lot of distain for this episode, but To my mind, and in my opinion, this was the best episode of the season, so far.
I loved the "core Venture" style writing, getting back hard to the theme of failure, heavy with the Monarch, and people facing up to their own inadequecies.
Hatered spying on Tinyfeet's S&M party, Dr.Mrs. M once again acknowledging that she is not where she wanted to be in life (personally I think she settled for duo-ship, since she couldn't hack it as a villian....Yes, I know, FICTION.) If only we could get Brock back into the mix, I would be a really happy camper. ...and of corse, as always with me, Triana.
I've been musing over what role "Nikki" is going to play in the series. I'm thinking that Hank is going to fall for her, I just hope that she doesn't turn out to be evil (undoubtedly will) the series could do with more consistant female characters.
As for the final sequence, it's anybody's guess. But two things I would put money on:
-Henchman #1 (from now museum...) crossed the Ventures off the list,
-And we aren't going to get an answer in the next episode.
Just my opinion.
Here's hopin' we see Brock soon!
I loved the "core Venture" style writing, getting back hard to the theme of failure, heavy with the Monarch, and people facing up to their own inadequecies.
Hatered spying on Tinyfeet's S&M party, Dr.Mrs. M once again acknowledging that she is not where she wanted to be in life (personally I think she settled for duo-ship, since she couldn't hack it as a villian....Yes, I know, FICTION.) If only we could get Brock back into the mix, I would be a really happy camper. ...and of corse, as always with me, Triana.
I've been musing over what role "Nikki" is going to play in the series. I'm thinking that Hank is going to fall for her, I just hope that she doesn't turn out to be evil (undoubtedly will) the series could do with more consistant female characters.
As for the final sequence, it's anybody's guess. But two things I would put money on:
-Henchman #1 (from now museum...) crossed the Ventures off the list,
-And we aren't going to get an answer in the next episode.
Just my opinion.
Here's hopin' we see Brock soon!
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: C1880968BC)
That's a good guess on Henchman #1. I hadn't thought of that. It seems that Brock had mellowed out a but on the killing, so maybe he just let him go with a beating. I would deffinately now put him in the top 5 list of possibilities. But how did he duck out of sight so quickly when 21 came in the room?
- by The Mysterious 'H'
- (unregistered id: 2B2DEC558B)
No, that's Kim. Nikki is a new character that hasn't premiered yet. More info here:
http://www.idolstartv.com/featured-articles/3255.html
http://www.idolstartv.com/featured-articles/3255.html
- by Col. Aldus Valor
- (unregistered id: 66F4B78B05)
Sorry I've been away, lost my internetz...
I only read the capsule, and not the discussion thread, so I don't know if it was mentioned yet, but since it is missing from the capsule, I figured it was worth mentioning.
D-19's "Dean Suit" is an homage to Silence of the Lambs, where Buffalo Bill REALLY wanted to be a woman and started skinning large women to make a woman suit.
I only read the capsule, and not the discussion thread, so I don't know if it was mentioned yet, but since it is missing from the capsule, I figured it was worth mentioning.
D-19's "Dean Suit" is an homage to Silence of the Lambs, where Buffalo Bill REALLY wanted to be a woman and started skinning large women to make a woman suit.
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