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A Very Venture Halloween Discussion
Update: If you missed the episode and have access to watch Adult Swim Gold episodes (generally if you pay for some sort of cable or satellite TV) "A Very Venture Halloween" is up on Adult Swim Video. No word yet on when it will be up as a non-Gold video, but probably next weekend.
- by AldusValor
- by AldusValor
- by AldusValor
It's called "gynecomastia". It's caused by aging, weight lifting, or (drum roll) chemical castration. You didn't think it was... odd, a sex offender handing out candy to kids?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration#Effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration#Effects
- by Sgt Boobtred
- (unregistered id: AD334993D8)
YOU HUNGER FOR IT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKcybZZDH3U
MY...PLEASURE TOAST.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKcybZZDH3U
MY...PLEASURE TOAST.
- by Waynooski
- by Mecha-Shiva
- by AldusValor
- by Mecha-Shiva
- by Mecha-Shiva
- by Pete
- (unregistered id: 1E462B7225)
I think that's Burt Manstrong, based on the build and physical characteristics. However, the boy scout with the afro is unaccounted for...
On a related note, Acton Johnny (who J.J. called "Mr. Quest" in '20 Years to Midnight') would have a father named Benton...so, that maybe? Ben, for short?
On a related note, Acton Johnny (who J.J. called "Mr. Quest" in '20 Years to Midnight') would have a father named Benton...so, that maybe? Ben, for short?
- by Justin
- (unregistered id: 76D99F557F)
Good episode. I laughed at lot. I was looking forward to the Halloween Special just because I knew it would be Orpheus centered. It was cool to see more of the magic users in the Venture Bros. universe. The fact that Red Mantle was at the same meeting/party as The Triad and The Outrider would seem to suggest that the alliances of good and evil work differently amongst magic users vs. the other superheroes and villains.
Also....
Liked Dean's goth look.
Hatred's boobs. Was that his costume or is VB getting ready to head into some Mr./Mrs. Garrison South Park territory?
Will Dean tell Hank they are clones? That seems like a good moral quandary for the next season to rest on. Also who is Ben???
Also....
Liked Dean's goth look.
Hatred's boobs. Was that his costume or is VB getting ready to head into some Mr./Mrs. Garrison South Park territory?
Will Dean tell Hank they are clones? That seems like a good moral quandary for the next season to rest on. Also who is Ben???
- by Justin
- (unregistered id: 76D99F557F)
So after watching the Halloween special I wanted to watch another Orpheus themed episode so I went back to watch A Better Man in Season 4 and something jumped out at me. In Season 4 The Master tells Triana about Dean and Hank being clones. He also tells Triana not to marry Dean because his "gene pool is more like a gene septic tank" and their children would be deformed. At the time I remember finding this very bleak but then also wondering if The Master was lying to Triana in an attempt to try and get her to go live with her mom and The Outrider.
Well in this episode we get some follow through on that because Ben (whoever he is) after examining Dean says that he's a perfect human specimen, "a miracle", with the exception that he'll one day need glasses like his dad. So maybe The Master was lying. Or Ben could be wrong. One of the underling themes in the series has been science vs. magic and this could make for an interesting test case.
Thoughts?
Well in this episode we get some follow through on that because Ben (whoever he is) after examining Dean says that he's a perfect human specimen, "a miracle", with the exception that he'll one day need glasses like his dad. So maybe The Master was lying. Or Ben could be wrong. One of the underling themes in the series has been science vs. magic and this could make for an interesting test case.
Thoughts?
- by AldusValor
- by Timothy
- (unregistered id: 195250CDE8)
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Ben may be off.. or The Master could be lying.
I thought it was very interesting that Dean found out in a similar bizzare surreal fashion that he was a clone from a man he had just met after wandering into an unknown place, just as Triana did in that other ep when she went into the closet.
Ben may be off.. or The Master could be lying.
I thought it was very interesting that Dean found out in a similar bizzare surreal fashion that he was a clone from a man he had just met after wandering into an unknown place, just as Triana did in that other ep when she went into the closet.
It was okay. I'm as die-hard a Venture fan as I am, but Doc and Jackson are a little too in love with their characters, and not with a forward thrusting plot. As much fun as it was to be back in the Venure-verse... nothing really happened in this episode. The jokes were solid, but meandering episodes like this tend to be my least favorie (IE Revenge Society).
/irritatednerdrant
/irritatednerdrant
- by AldusValor
- by Cartoonofilia
- (unregistered id: 76D6B857BA)
How dare you guys, it was bad enough that I have had a boy crush on Dean since I accidentally saw the show on AS years ago, and since then became addicted, even losing my reallife BF over my obsession, yet...now you tease me further as a monkeyesque creature sniffs then fondles my precious DEAN.... and then making DEAN a tad darker and dare I say SEXIER, Lord help me, I am a Cartoonofile, lock me up, but seriosuly, growing up closeted and intially dreaming about Johnny Quest was bad enough, being a fan of Patrick W did not help and being a Bowie worshipper to boot, this series is my entire life growing up from D&D to role playing to wishing I would never grow-up, get out of my head ...... LOVE YOU GUYS!
- by AldusValor
- by Mike
- by The Tick
- (unregistered id: 195250CDE8)
Update: If you missed the episode and have access to watch Adult Swim Gold episodes (generally if you pay for some sort of cable or satellite TV) "A Very Venture Halloween" is up on Adult Swim Video. No word yet on when it will be up as a non-Gold video, but probably next weekend.
Update 2: Adult Swim is reairing the episode once on Halloween night as well.
Update 2: Adult Swim is reairing the episode once on Halloween night as well.
Informative
- by Phil
Finished my review. Spoiler: I loved it.
http://noiselesschatter.com/2012/10/29/review-the-venture-bros-a-very-venture-halloween/
I used to write these for Noise to Signal during season 3, for those of you who were around then. I seem to remember them going over quite well, but if for any reason I'm not welcome to post these here, please let me know and I'll stop. :) But know I'll be doing the whole season anyway, on my blog, and I hope to see you there.
http://noiselesschatter.com/2012/10/29/review-the-venture-bros-a-very-venture-halloween/
I used to write these for Noise to Signal during season 3, for those of you who were around then. I seem to remember them going over quite well, but if for any reason I'm not welcome to post these here, please let me know and I'll stop. :) But know I'll be doing the whole season anyway, on my blog, and I hope to see you there.
- by Phil
- by Mike
The capsule/notes will take longer but I put the screencaps up last night: http://mantiseye.com/episode/a_very_venture_halloween
For this season the full sized ones are in full 720p resolution, so if you have a big enough monitor they should be in full HD! If not they'll just be scaled down.
For this season the full sized ones are in full 720p resolution, so if you have a big enough monitor they should be in full HD! If not they'll just be scaled down.
- by Jory
- (unregistered id: 2EE76A7550)
I thought the episode was okay. The show looks and sounds pretty good. The plot was a bit of a mess but overall wasn't too bad. The entire zombie element felt entirely perfunctory and unthreatening, though the zombie crowd was full of fun callbacks and it was good to see the Master again. I thought a lot of the dialog felt pretty strong and natural. Ben was a fun character and I enjoyed Dr. Venture's and Dermott's characterization throughout. What a couple of assholes.
Did anyone but me think that the gags had no teeth? The episode had a few light chuckles but for the most part the jokes just completely failed to land. Are we really supposed to find the word "balls" funny? Like, three times? I feel like a dick for saying so, but I wish J&D would have someone else critique their scripts so they can figure out what needs punching up. They obviously care a lot about the characters and the stories, but the goofs need some serious "oomph".
That said, the 'sode was not a bad start at all. I'm looking forward to the new season, though I've still got my fingers crossed for some female characters (with speaking parts, please!)
Did anyone but me think that the gags had no teeth? The episode had a few light chuckles but for the most part the jokes just completely failed to land. Are we really supposed to find the word "balls" funny? Like, three times? I feel like a dick for saying so, but I wish J&D would have someone else critique their scripts so they can figure out what needs punching up. They obviously care a lot about the characters and the stories, but the goofs need some serious "oomph".
That said, the 'sode was not a bad start at all. I'm looking forward to the new season, though I've still got my fingers crossed for some female characters (with speaking parts, please!)
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: B2E10FA12A)
I didn't see any complaints about the quality of animation from Titmouse so I assume everyone liked it. I liked some of the little touches like through the kitchen window at the beginning you could see some leaves on the ground by the pool instead of them using the same old view of that area.
I know they only had so much time here, but it would have been a good episode to bring back Venturestein. I thought I saw him as one of the zombies but it was so quick I couldn't be sure.
I know they only had so much time here, but it would have been a good episode to bring back Venturestein. I thought I saw him as one of the zombies but it was so quick I couldn't be sure.
- by Mike
The animation was done by the same studio that's always done the show (in Korea), not Titmouse. Them animating the Shallow Gravy thing was a one-time deal. The storyboards and layouts are now done at Titmouse, however, but the staff seems to be mostly the same people who have worked on the last couple of seasons.
Also Venturestein is confirmed for season five! Would be too easy to bring him back in an episode with zombies though.
Also Venturestein is confirmed for season five! Would be too easy to bring him back in an episode with zombies though.
I absolutely loved Orpheus in this episode! Holiday specials tend to rest on the premise that they're making a statement about the true meaning of that holiday. The notion that Halloween is when we're our true selves, or that it allows us the time to explore our options fit perfectly with the rest of the episode. It created a wonderful symmetry that brought together the various story threads in really productive way, while also keeping up with traditions of other holiday specials.
Given that VB is one of the few Adult Swim series concerned with character development, this sort of work is always a treat. If things continue as they did here, I think we're in for a real treat next year!
Given that VB is one of the few Adult Swim series concerned with character development, this sort of work is always a treat. If things continue as they did here, I think we're in for a real treat next year!
- by kijunshi
- (unregistered id: 0E2BDA0AF2)
OK, as a long-lurking fan, I'm going to indulge myself and write a stupidly long comment outlining my best guesses about what's going down this upcoming season, based on hints in this (amazing) Halloween special.
--Hatred's boobs - think the commenter above nailed it; chemical castration seems to be the reason. Which most likely means that pedophilia jokes are over, at least for now. Which ALSO means that he is most likely *not* with Princess Tinyfeet in any way...
--Doc changing his attitude to Dermott - wouldn't be surprised if this is referenced in the season opener next spring. I wonder if there was any phone call to the Fictel house or any other, uh, consultation that took place after the realization? Probably not.
--Dean being goth - oh man, oh man. That is going to be THE thing in the season opening. I suspect there's going the be a new resistance to super science and to inheriting the Venture business right along with it... He's been the kid who's changed the least so far, so this is going to throw everyone for a loop. Unless Doc and Jackson do a cold-cut away from it (OK, that is also entirely possible) there is going to be some serious conflict with Rusty right off the bat.
--Related to that - how in god's name did Dean get Rusty's/Hatred's OK for the black speedsuit? I don't think you can just go buy one of those at Hot Topic...
--Also related to that - Dean made a crack about it "burning when he peed" and referenced a woman. Granted, it was just for a moment, but Rusty seemed to think this was *a thing that could actually happen*. I don't think he would have believed it in the middle of Season 4. Two possibilities: Dean actually hangs out with a new crowd (doubtful), or he's become even more withdrawn and less likely to spend time with anyone, and his Dad has no idea what the hell he does anymore. Oh, poor Dean ;_;
--Who else wants to bet money that Dean now includes a selection of badly-written emo poetry in that newspaper he prints? I'm in for $50.
--Brock - almost certainly off doing awesome shit for OSI. Probably doesn't visit all that often any more. Patrick Warburton didn't even seem to know the season's plot, which is a sign that he's not super-involved in it. I wonder if this will change for Season 6?
--Pete and Billy - still together, uh, probably not in that way, but you know what I mean. Still living together, despite Billy making noises about dumping his lame roommate late last season and gaining the means to be independent. I think there will be at least one episode referencing that this season.
--Dermott dressing up as The Crow was all kinds of hilarious. He's secretly super-dramatic on the inside, even as he projects very successfully the image of a douche. Ah teenagers!
--There's something a little touching about the thought that the friendship Hank currently has with Dermott was so important to him that he erased his own memory of the first time he had sex to preserve it. Yeah, it would have left a bad aftertaste no matter what, but watching this episode I was struck that the friendship was probably also a big factor.
--Deep irony that Dean was the one called a "baby" in this episode, but that he was the one whose childhood effectively ended through finding out about the clones.
--I'm certain that even though we didn't see it, Dean also found out the identity of his mother in the same conversation. It's been *the* animating question through the last 3 seasons, even though it's clear that Rusty has no intent of answering it, and I think the temptation of finally meeting someone who will give him a straight answer was too much to overcome. Given that, and given his dejected expression, I'm more certain than ever that his mother truly is Myra. I'm pretty sure he remembers her from Season 2. That means that not only was he thinking about his clone-ness, but also probably dealing with the end of the last of his fantasies that he had some sort of a female figure somewhere out there who would love him unconditionally - without trying to kidnap him or breastfeed him at 16, anyway. Ouch.
Weirdly enough I think that Rusty's decision to take the kids away from Myra was more loving and protective than the cloning - Myra was unstable from the beginning, probably snapped completely due to post-partum depression. She may have even tried to kill them (and didn't she succeed a few times, also?) Whereas the clones were more because Rusty wanted to keep living his father's lifestyle...
--The master - wtf? I thought he was the devil, but instead he ended up doing the morally right thing? Or perhaps he has his own reasons. Beyond human understanding and all.
--I have a feeling those yearly magical society meetings used to be a lot cooler back in the day.
--This series has all but spelled out that Orpheous got dumped by his wife because he couldn't satisfy her in bed, but holy cow, was this a signpost or what? Also: I'd thought that the relationship was on the rocks between Tatiana and the Outrider, but it looks like they're going strong again.
--I think that Ben will appear again in the series - as a guide to Dean if nothing else, as he's the only one in the entire series so far willing to talk straight to him (and even he uses words like "boo-boo", but maybe Dean just inspires that in people). I think there's a good chance that Dean could start to dabble in some black science this season as well.
--OK, I'll just call it - I think Season 5 is going to be for Dean what Season 4 was for Hank - hella loads of character development, ending with his destiny relatively clear ahead of him. Hank is pretty clearly going to be a successful business owner, most likely after a stint in OSI. He'll always be involved with and love this crazy lifestyle. I hope - hope hope hope - that Dean learns how to deal with it and escape it, but I suspect his arc will be a lot darker. I also suspect he will lose his virginity this season as well, and it will be just as awful as Hank's but in a different way.
And that's it... a thousand words on a Halloween special. Sigh. Why oh why do I love this show so much...
--Hatred's boobs - think the commenter above nailed it; chemical castration seems to be the reason. Which most likely means that pedophilia jokes are over, at least for now. Which ALSO means that he is most likely *not* with Princess Tinyfeet in any way...
--Doc changing his attitude to Dermott - wouldn't be surprised if this is referenced in the season opener next spring. I wonder if there was any phone call to the Fictel house or any other, uh, consultation that took place after the realization? Probably not.
--Dean being goth - oh man, oh man. That is going to be THE thing in the season opening. I suspect there's going the be a new resistance to super science and to inheriting the Venture business right along with it... He's been the kid who's changed the least so far, so this is going to throw everyone for a loop. Unless Doc and Jackson do a cold-cut away from it (OK, that is also entirely possible) there is going to be some serious conflict with Rusty right off the bat.
--Related to that - how in god's name did Dean get Rusty's/Hatred's OK for the black speedsuit? I don't think you can just go buy one of those at Hot Topic...
--Also related to that - Dean made a crack about it "burning when he peed" and referenced a woman. Granted, it was just for a moment, but Rusty seemed to think this was *a thing that could actually happen*. I don't think he would have believed it in the middle of Season 4. Two possibilities: Dean actually hangs out with a new crowd (doubtful), or he's become even more withdrawn and less likely to spend time with anyone, and his Dad has no idea what the hell he does anymore. Oh, poor Dean ;_;
--Who else wants to bet money that Dean now includes a selection of badly-written emo poetry in that newspaper he prints? I'm in for $50.
--Brock - almost certainly off doing awesome shit for OSI. Probably doesn't visit all that often any more. Patrick Warburton didn't even seem to know the season's plot, which is a sign that he's not super-involved in it. I wonder if this will change for Season 6?
--Pete and Billy - still together, uh, probably not in that way, but you know what I mean. Still living together, despite Billy making noises about dumping his lame roommate late last season and gaining the means to be independent. I think there will be at least one episode referencing that this season.
--Dermott dressing up as The Crow was all kinds of hilarious. He's secretly super-dramatic on the inside, even as he projects very successfully the image of a douche. Ah teenagers!
--There's something a little touching about the thought that the friendship Hank currently has with Dermott was so important to him that he erased his own memory of the first time he had sex to preserve it. Yeah, it would have left a bad aftertaste no matter what, but watching this episode I was struck that the friendship was probably also a big factor.
--Deep irony that Dean was the one called a "baby" in this episode, but that he was the one whose childhood effectively ended through finding out about the clones.
--I'm certain that even though we didn't see it, Dean also found out the identity of his mother in the same conversation. It's been *the* animating question through the last 3 seasons, even though it's clear that Rusty has no intent of answering it, and I think the temptation of finally meeting someone who will give him a straight answer was too much to overcome. Given that, and given his dejected expression, I'm more certain than ever that his mother truly is Myra. I'm pretty sure he remembers her from Season 2. That means that not only was he thinking about his clone-ness, but also probably dealing with the end of the last of his fantasies that he had some sort of a female figure somewhere out there who would love him unconditionally - without trying to kidnap him or breastfeed him at 16, anyway. Ouch.
Weirdly enough I think that Rusty's decision to take the kids away from Myra was more loving and protective than the cloning - Myra was unstable from the beginning, probably snapped completely due to post-partum depression. She may have even tried to kill them (and didn't she succeed a few times, also?) Whereas the clones were more because Rusty wanted to keep living his father's lifestyle...
--The master - wtf? I thought he was the devil, but instead he ended up doing the morally right thing? Or perhaps he has his own reasons. Beyond human understanding and all.
--I have a feeling those yearly magical society meetings used to be a lot cooler back in the day.
--This series has all but spelled out that Orpheous got dumped by his wife because he couldn't satisfy her in bed, but holy cow, was this a signpost or what? Also: I'd thought that the relationship was on the rocks between Tatiana and the Outrider, but it looks like they're going strong again.
--I think that Ben will appear again in the series - as a guide to Dean if nothing else, as he's the only one in the entire series so far willing to talk straight to him (and even he uses words like "boo-boo", but maybe Dean just inspires that in people). I think there's a good chance that Dean could start to dabble in some black science this season as well.
--OK, I'll just call it - I think Season 5 is going to be for Dean what Season 4 was for Hank - hella loads of character development, ending with his destiny relatively clear ahead of him. Hank is pretty clearly going to be a successful business owner, most likely after a stint in OSI. He'll always be involved with and love this crazy lifestyle. I hope - hope hope hope - that Dean learns how to deal with it and escape it, but I suspect his arc will be a lot darker. I also suspect he will lose his virginity this season as well, and it will be just as awful as Hank's but in a different way.
And that's it... a thousand words on a Halloween special. Sigh. Why oh why do I love this show so much...
- by beb
- (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
Ben is very problematic for the series. He is a major character, living on the Venture Compound introduced in the fifth season. It's hard to believe that Hank and Dean have never violated their father's order to stay away from the old Potter place. They're death-prone kids; tell them not to run with scissors and they will run with scissors. So in 18 years they have never run into Ben before. And he doesn't look like the kind of guy who goes around mind-wiping people just because they learned an inconvenient truth. This is a major Retcon and I think it's a badly done one.
Myra has to be the boy's mother because she knows they're older than they think they are (Time lost warming up a new set of slugs). The question is, did she go insane before the boys were cloned, or because the boys were cloned. I think the latter. Burying your chldren one day and a month later being presented with ... "your sons" still alive would break a lot of people's minds.
And if Dean suffers from Fetia whatever like his father, does that mean he's carrying Jonas III inside him?
Myra has to be the boy's mother because she knows they're older than they think they are (Time lost warming up a new set of slugs). The question is, did she go insane before the boys were cloned, or because the boys were cloned. I think the latter. Burying your chldren one day and a month later being presented with ... "your sons" still alive would break a lot of people's minds.
And if Dean suffers from Fetia whatever like his father, does that mean he's carrying Jonas III inside him?
- by Dave
- (unregistered id: F19DE73B12)
- by Mike
- by beb
- (unregistered id: E931CDA98D)
Or that Jonas was sterile and needed an heir to continue the leadership of the Guild. Remember that Dean had to anoint Bowie as Soverign to end Phantom Limb's take-over attempt so So a son was vital for Jonas but for all his philandering there are no bastard Ventures, just the one and only Rusty (and his embedded twin Jonas, Jr.
- by kijunshi
- (unregistered id: 0E2BDA0AF2)
Are you *sure* there are no bastard Ventures? I can think of two pretty strong possibilities - Dr. Quym and the Monarch - right off the bat...
I personally thought that Jonas had an "oops" moment with one of his many women who couldn't or didn't want to take care of a child, and realized that he could make a profit (in the long term) off of Rusty just like all his other inventions.
To take a darker turn, I also suspect that Jonas Jr. is actually an attempt at making a clone of the original Jonas, and that it was grown inside of Rusty either as an accidental byproduct - or perhaps even more creepily, using him as a host. Sure, Rusty was probably cloned with that technology for convenience's sake too, but doesn't it make more sense that as he developed the technology, somewhere in the back of Jonas' mind, he was thinking of making himself immortal?
I personally thought that Jonas had an "oops" moment with one of his many women who couldn't or didn't want to take care of a child, and realized that he could make a profit (in the long term) off of Rusty just like all his other inventions.
To take a darker turn, I also suspect that Jonas Jr. is actually an attempt at making a clone of the original Jonas, and that it was grown inside of Rusty either as an accidental byproduct - or perhaps even more creepily, using him as a host. Sure, Rusty was probably cloned with that technology for convenience's sake too, but doesn't it make more sense that as he developed the technology, somewhere in the back of Jonas' mind, he was thinking of making himself immortal?
- by Mike
Ben said there was no sign of fetiform teratoma in Dean, meaning he doesn't share the same affliction as his father.
Also Myra seemed like she went insane well before the boys were born. The scene where she is being taken away right when Brock shows up they boys are infants and all of their deaths appear to have occurred during their teenage years. She could still be their mother, but she was unhinged from the start.
Also Myra seemed like she went insane well before the boys were born. The scene where she is being taken away right when Brock shows up they boys are infants and all of their deaths appear to have occurred during their teenage years. She could still be their mother, but she was unhinged from the start.
- by beb
- (unregistered id: E931CDA98D)
The boys think they are about three years younger than Myra does so there is a limit how old the boys were when they first died. Since the slugs age as the same rate as a normal person. It would take three years to Rusty to grew a three year old slug. Hence the boys were at mostly 1 or 2 when they died the first time. Doc and JP may have shown the boys dying numerous times when they were teenagers but they first time had to be early so that there is only a three year gap between their assumed age and the age Myra thinks (knows) them to be.
I misread the capsule comment about "fetiform teratoma." thinking Ben had said he did have it when he said he do NOT. mea culpa.
I misread the capsule comment about "fetiform teratoma." thinking Ben had said he did have it when he said he do NOT. mea culpa.
- by Wrongo
- (unregistered id: 03231B2A00)
Dean and Hank are clones... the 13th or 14th set... I forget which set they are on.
Anyway, who is to say that Ben hasn't met all the other clones of Dean.. and it just so happens it took this Dean a little longer to go over to that house.
Ben knew that Dean was the 14th clone copy, so maybe he'd met Deans 1-13.
I'm sorry but your rants against the best ainmated show in the world are paper thin.
Anyway, who is to say that Ben hasn't met all the other clones of Dean.. and it just so happens it took this Dean a little longer to go over to that house.
Ben knew that Dean was the 14th clone copy, so maybe he'd met Deans 1-13.
I'm sorry but your rants against the best ainmated show in the world are paper thin.
Jonas Venture Jr. doesn't squash that theory. What if a skin particle of Jonas's falls off him into the test tube embryo of Rusty, DNA gets embedded into one zygote cell, and then somehow forms into the embedded twin of Rusty. Happy accident!
I doubt Doc perfected using the "Leaning beds" to acquire all thought processes/memories from a sleeping person, transferring them into a machine, and then transferring them into 'sleeping' clone slugs. I'm sure Jonas and Ben did all this work on someone in the past, and it's likely to have been Rusty. Doc just took over after it was all left to him. Doc does have some super-science abilities, but this seems beyond him.
I doubt Doc perfected using the "Leaning beds" to acquire all thought processes/memories from a sleeping person, transferring them into a machine, and then transferring them into 'sleeping' clone slugs. I'm sure Jonas and Ben did all this work on someone in the past, and it's likely to have been Rusty. Doc just took over after it was all left to him. Doc does have some super-science abilities, but this seems beyond him.
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