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The Lepidopterists -- Discussion!
I was about to make an update that would post itself at 6pm but I peeked at AS.com and noticed that The Lepidopterists is already up for your viewing pleasure. So, as is the custom, use the comments in this article to talk about the episode, beware of spoilers if you haven't seen it yet and try to be civil. Oh and maybe perhaps go rate the episode on the capsule page after you watch it? Hmmm? Enjoy, kids!
- by Doc Kneezy Fan
- (unregistered id: A645D319F0)
Holy Dammit Christmas! This is the episode I've been waiting for all my life. The Lepidopterists themselves are great characters. They're like the Yin to Killinger's malevolent Yang. 21 and 24 were so cocky about their indestructability I was getting an eirie feeling that they were going to die. I didn't feel safe until the very end, now I can breath. Great episode, I loved it.
- by Josh Geller
- (unregistered id: 0EEA2CBC1F)
Spooks are not gangsters.
Spooks do not talk like gangsters.
Male spooks do typically wear black suits.
Spooks do not typically wear black hats.
Spooks are much more likely to talk like they are upper and upper middle class New Englanders, Southerners or middle Americans than working class Brooklynites. This is because most of them *are* upper and upper middle class New Englanders, Southerners and middle Americans.
There are lots and lots of girl spooks, especially in operations, and there always have been. This has to do with biology: women come in under the radar of most men. But you don't expect to find too many women anywhere in Venture Bros World.
I am not complaining, here: we can (and I do) consider these things ways in which the Venture Bros World differs from our World, like highly trained and universally feared assassins not using guns, and just about everybody seeming but not actually being gay, etc,
etc.
.
Spooks do not talk like gangsters.
Male spooks do typically wear black suits.
Spooks do not typically wear black hats.
Spooks are much more likely to talk like they are upper and upper middle class New Englanders, Southerners or middle Americans than working class Brooklynites. This is because most of them *are* upper and upper middle class New Englanders, Southerners and middle Americans.
There are lots and lots of girl spooks, especially in operations, and there always have been. This has to do with biology: women come in under the radar of most men. But you don't expect to find too many women anywhere in Venture Bros World.
I am not complaining, here: we can (and I do) consider these things ways in which the Venture Bros World differs from our World, like highly trained and universally feared assassins not using guns, and just about everybody seeming but not actually being gay, etc,
etc.
.
- by Jordan
- (unregistered id: 8151897777)
Quick question: Why is Jonas J. so eager to become like his father? He never knew the guy, and by looking at Rusty can see that Jonas Sr. was probably a incompotent father (allowing his son to get kidnapped so many times) and a selfish prick (See: Dr. Quymn, Medicine Woman and What Goes Down Must Come Up). Hell, Entmann himself can argue that Jonas Sr. was a thoughtless hack, But Hey, I guess Years trapped in a stomach nursing delusions of grandure wil do that to you.
Otherwise, an excellent episode as I've ever seen one. I do pray we see Henchman #1 again and I pray that the Monarch goes a=on a killing rampage we can see on screen. (Brock Style, not what he did with Dr. Manatee) A Perfect 10 if there ever was one.
Otherwise, an excellent episode as I've ever seen one. I do pray we see Henchman #1 again and I pray that the Monarch goes a=on a killing rampage we can see on screen. (Brock Style, not what he did with Dr. Manatee) A Perfect 10 if there ever was one.
- by WorstServedCold
- (unregistered id: 3BEE65312C)
JJ wasn't just spending all those years inside Rusty with his delusions, he (I assume by hearing) experienced all of the original Dr. Venture son's past, so he probably feels as close to the original Dr. Venture as Rusty.... with the added benefit that he didn't have to see his johnson at the breakfast table, or experience many of the other negative aspects of Rusty's life.
- by Tess
- (unregistered id: 4E429DF010)
I see it more as... Jonas Jr.'s experiences of his father were predominantly positive ones -- that is, JJ experienced Jonas as, perhaps, a person watching the Old Rusty Venture TV Show would have. They don't see, notice, or care that Jonas is doing all of these irresponsible things because that's not how he carries himself.
How conscious JJ actually was, I presume, was not very much, as he was inside his brother's gut. But they do acknowledge he had some amount of awareness while he was still absorbed.
How conscious JJ actually was, I presume, was not very much, as he was inside his brother's gut. But they do acknowledge he had some amount of awareness while he was still absorbed.
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 760CA431DC)
I don't get it. JJ knew who Sally Impossible was in 20 Years to Midnight. She asked if they had met and he replied, "Not so you'd have noticed", but he doesn't know who The Monarch is? I had been under the impression that he had been concious of Rusty's experiences from being inside him. That's how JJ was able to nearly kill Rusty in Return to Spider Skull Island. he even know the ray gun Rusty was holding didn't work.
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 760CA431DC)
I was laughing myself off the couch on that one when Pirate Captain was getting pushed back into the seat from the g-forces. Remember how almost every Voltron episode ended the same? They'd get their asses kicked by the baddie of the week (another giant robot, mutated space dragon-spider whatever) and at the very end they'd use their mega power sword move and slice through it in one shot? Guess they never thought of using that move first to save some time and wear and tear on the robot.
- by WorstServedCold
- (unregistered id: 3BEE65312C)
Here is a reference I may have been alone in getting:
When Brock starts kinda meandering in his description of an arch enemy weapon (octopus/tank with laser eyes) one of the lepidopterists says "I like the cut of this man's jib".
In the short-lived live-action "The Tick", when The Tick is giving a eulogy, he starts going off on one of his epic nonsense tangents, and a general sitting in the audience starts getting into it, saying the same line.... and guess who played The Tick?
http://www.hulu.com/watch/7488/the-tick-the-funeral
When Brock starts kinda meandering in his description of an arch enemy weapon (octopus/tank with laser eyes) one of the lepidopterists says "I like the cut of this man's jib".
In the short-lived live-action "The Tick", when The Tick is giving a eulogy, he starts going off on one of his epic nonsense tangents, and a general sitting in the audience starts getting into it, saying the same line.... and guess who played The Tick?
http://www.hulu.com/watch/7488/the-tick-the-funeral
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: 1810A2A1DF)
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: 027D18FA77)
Actually both things you said are false. This episode was written by Doc, and Jackson was a writer for The Tick. Doc was just friends with Ben Edlund. Also the line in this episode was spoken by Doc (or Jackson; I forget which guy said the line) about Brock, it was not spoken by Brock. So there's no connection other than they happened to use this phrase on two shows where Chris McCulloch is a writer.
- by Trashcan Man
- (unregistered id: B16763C1BD)
The expression is indeed a nautical one. The Jib sail is a triangular sail that stretches from the foretop mast to the jib boom- an extension of the bowsprit. Captains each maintained their own style of jib sail, hence the expression "I like the cut of your jib", which literally means "I like how your sail is shaped". Basically, it's a compliment on one's style.
- by jon
- (unregistered id: 980F3D0A75)
I think it's great that we get the full opening credits back on an episode that not only lacks the Venture Bros. themselves, but Doc as well
I was so into this episode from the very beginning, it was like watching Season 2 again. Parody and satire about adventure cartoons is exactly what this show does best, and it's taken a lot of character building and plot advancement to get to this point, but from here on out, I think season 3 is going to be gold.
"I'm not gonna use 'buggeldy-boos' and 'meddling kids!' It's not my style!"
I was so into this episode from the very beginning, it was like watching Season 2 again. Parody and satire about adventure cartoons is exactly what this show does best, and it's taken a lot of character building and plot advancement to get to this point, but from here on out, I think season 3 is going to be gold.
"I'm not gonna use 'buggeldy-boos' and 'meddling kids!' It's not my style!"
- by H
- (unregistered id: 4E367C4092)
A great episode, but not a knockout. From the first moment I heard Doe and Cardholder, I started talking like them and haven't stopped. They are so Phillip Marlowe, Sam Spade, 40's tough. Voltron's nice but it feels forced. I mean, why even have Ned if he's not really doing anything?
I love that they brought up Speedy and that the Monarch actually had a good plan this time. One minor issue: Did Watch and Ward sound different to anyone else?
I love that they brought up Speedy and that the Monarch actually had a good plan this time. One minor issue: Did Watch and Ward sound different to anyone else?
- by cgeye
- (unregistered id: 06CD52E709)
The Monarch has killed five protagonists since being kicked off from arching Rusty V.
And the only thing that stopped him from a suicide attack was the GCI rulebook giving him expanded vengeance rights because JJ was foolish enough to exceed Level 8 violence.
Dr Mrs The Monarch, again, was the voice of reason, but this time JJ was the one not listening. And with only a capable girlfriend, disgruntled ex-pirates and a callous man-child watching his back, once The Monarch executes his revenge on the whole Venture family, what in the heck will happen?
And the only thing that stopped him from a suicide attack was the GCI rulebook giving him expanded vengeance rights because JJ was foolish enough to exceed Level 8 violence.
Dr Mrs The Monarch, again, was the voice of reason, but this time JJ was the one not listening. And with only a capable girlfriend, disgruntled ex-pirates and a callous man-child watching his back, once The Monarch executes his revenge on the whole Venture family, what in the heck will happen?
- by H
- (unregistered id: 4E367C4092)
I don't think the Monarch wants to kill anyone. He just wants Rusty back. It's like some sort of sick romance. His idea of expanded vengeance rights is likely a form of arching Rusty.
And besides, JJ is new to the game. He just wants to do superscience for the sake of humanity so he is easily persuaded to attempt killing The Monarch to just end the whole tet a tet.
And besides, JJ is new to the game. He just wants to do superscience for the sake of humanity so he is easily persuaded to attempt killing The Monarch to just end the whole tet a tet.
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
- by cuavsfan
- (unregistered id: 159559D514)
This episode can be summed up with one (hyphenated) word: "Meta-humor." Everything about cliches, the archenemy / protagonist relationship, who dies and who lives... they were analyzing the world of the Venture Bros. form within like crazy. I thought that almost all of it worked well (especially the stuff with 21 and 24). This is probably one of the top couple episodes of the season IMO.
Shirt prediction: 21 and 24 (please!!)
The callback to Speedy was great... and Brock was more Brock-ish in this episode (even if he did only kill one guy)...
Shirt prediction: 21 and 24 (please!!)
The callback to Speedy was great... and Brock was more Brock-ish in this episode (even if he did only kill one guy)...
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: 1810A2A1DF)
Yeah 21 and 24 are getting kind of ridiculously self-referential this season with noticing how they never die. I mean it's pretty clear they're never going to be killed off because everyone loves them (including Jackson and Doc) so I guess the next step is to just point out how they have somehow managed to survive through pure luck in spite of being massively incompetent. It's pretty hilarious.
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: 8F73EA59C9)
Yea. The fact that the competent henchmen always die and that 21 and 24 stay alive in spite of their hopelessness isn't odd - it's the whole joke!
Villainous henchmen almost always play the roll of hopelessly devoted cannon-fodder that pretty much always obey orders and end up getting killed for their troubles. 21 and 24 have somehow avoided such a fate by basically being lazy and incompetent and at this point have sort of figured the formula out.
Great joke. Pretty much sums up the whole idea of the Venture universe.
Villainous henchmen almost always play the roll of hopelessly devoted cannon-fodder that pretty much always obey orders and end up getting killed for their troubles. 21 and 24 have somehow avoided such a fate by basically being lazy and incompetent and at this point have sort of figured the formula out.
Great joke. Pretty much sums up the whole idea of the Venture universe.
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
Ahh, gotcha.
My girlfriend and I watched this last night and picked up on the same thing, but what I like about it is that they're not REALLY breaking the fourth wall. (As I mentioned in my noisetosignal.org review.) Basically, 21 and 24 grew up on all the same shows that The Venture Bros. is satirizing. They recognize conventions from those shows, and from comic books and movies.
Now they find themselves in very similar situations and already know the "rules" of what happens.
You're exactly right...it's a moment of self-awareness. But it's indirect self-awareness, which I think is a much more clever way to handle it.
My girlfriend and I watched this last night and picked up on the same thing, but what I like about it is that they're not REALLY breaking the fourth wall. (As I mentioned in my noisetosignal.org review.) Basically, 21 and 24 grew up on all the same shows that The Venture Bros. is satirizing. They recognize conventions from those shows, and from comic books and movies.
Now they find themselves in very similar situations and already know the "rules" of what happens.
You're exactly right...it's a moment of self-awareness. But it's indirect self-awareness, which I think is a much more clever way to handle it.
- by Tess
- (unregistered id: 4E429DF010)
Thank you for saying this. I totally agree with you.
These are people that possibly stay in their line of work BECAUSE OF their love of pop culture and entertainment from their youth. They notice themes, and they use them to their advantage. It's what makes them so versatile! I think it would be silly for them to NOT point out the obvious.
See, they're not doing and saying those things because WE'RE watching. They're doing and saying those things because THEY'RE watching, and they think it's EXTREME.
These are people that possibly stay in their line of work BECAUSE OF their love of pop culture and entertainment from their youth. They notice themes, and they use them to their advantage. It's what makes them so versatile! I think it would be silly for them to NOT point out the obvious.
See, they're not doing and saying those things because WE'RE watching. They're doing and saying those things because THEY'RE watching, and they think it's EXTREME.
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
Yeah, one thing I picked up on a while back--but never really had the chance to say anywhere--is that there's a reason 21 is still a henchman all these years after he was kidnapped...it's that he ALWAYS loved stuff like this. Being kidnapped by the Monarch was probably a dream come true. He went from a kid experiencing these battles on the pages of a comic book to a guy in a costume participating himself.
I mean, as much as Venture Bros. is about failure, at least characters like 21 are actually living their dream.
I mean, as much as Venture Bros. is about failure, at least characters like 21 are actually living their dream.
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: 8F73EA59C9)
I think the whole kidnapping thing was sort of semi-retconned. It's fairly obvious that neither 21 or 24 were kidnapped since they both currently live with at least one of their respective parents (when not working for the Monarch).
I guess it's feasible that the kidnapped henchman returned to his old home after the Monarch's incarceration, but the jokes in question (in Home Insecurity when the the Monarch and Verner's men are swapping henchmen stories) were written and executed before 21 and 24 had been cemented as actual characters. All through the first season their voices are basically used along with the random henchmen.
I guess it's feasible that the kidnapped henchman returned to his old home after the Monarch's incarceration, but the jokes in question (in Home Insecurity when the the Monarch and Verner's men are swapping henchmen stories) were written and executed before 21 and 24 had been cemented as actual characters. All through the first season their voices are basically used along with the random henchmen.
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: 4453D1431A)
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: 8F73EA59C9)
Alright, I stand corrected. But I still stand by the fact that at the time the joke was originally written the characters had not been established, or completely thought out for that matter, and you know how Jackson and Doc are fond of semi ret-conning (or at least taking slight liberties with) material from previous seasons (i.e. the glorious resurrection of Col. Gentleman).
- by Josh Geller
- (unregistered id: 0EEA2CBC1F)
James Branch Cabelll was a successful writer, who wrote this excellent, ironic, sexy fantastic prose. He wrote like thirty books. They were all published one by one.
Then he took them all, corrected them so they all took place in the same world, published the 'Storisende' edition, which is, like, thirty-two volumes, and bought up as many early copies (ie, non-corrected copies) as he could find.
I bet that JP and DH wish that they could do that, but they can't. So they do the next best thing.
Remember, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
.
Then he took them all, corrected them so they all took place in the same world, published the 'Storisende' edition, which is, like, thirty-two volumes, and bought up as many early copies (ie, non-corrected copies) as he could find.
I bet that JP and DH wish that they could do that, but they can't. So they do the next best thing.
Remember, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
.
- by Joe
- (unregistered id: 93E82EB5EA)
Gentlemen, that RULED!
The writing was fantastic, the one-liners were priceless, the cliches were spot-on.
Poor Scott. I was really rooting for him too. Ah well. Maybe he's still alive?
And The Monarch! What a genius! Shockingly brilliant yet simple plan.
When he asked Dr. Girlfriend (who seems to have shucked off her Dr. Mrs. The Monarch persona for some reason) if she trusted him, I thought I was going to die laughing when she hesistated, clearly thinking "Not really" and then finally hedged her answer just a little.
The writing was fantastic, the one-liners were priceless, the cliches were spot-on.
Poor Scott. I was really rooting for him too. Ah well. Maybe he's still alive?
And The Monarch! What a genius! Shockingly brilliant yet simple plan.
When he asked Dr. Girlfriend (who seems to have shucked off her Dr. Mrs. The Monarch persona for some reason) if she trusted him, I thought I was going to die laughing when she hesistated, clearly thinking "Not really" and then finally hedged her answer just a little.
- by cgeye
- (unregistered id: 06CD52E709)
Ironically, with her DG persona she's clearly second in command; as DMTM, she herself set herself up as a less-effective sexpot. She doesn't need the cleavage and the wings to prove her helpmeet worth. Besides, the DG costume matches the cocoon, so why reject what works?
And after all the accidental kills, shouldn't she demand that he regain her trust by fully carrying out a bold and cunning plan?
Which he did. Against the big-brained JJ Venture, the lepidopterist goods and Fucking Brock Samson his own self. Not too shabby, if I say so myself....
And after all the accidental kills, shouldn't she demand that he regain her trust by fully carrying out a bold and cunning plan?
Which he did. Against the big-brained JJ Venture, the lepidopterist goods and Fucking Brock Samson his own self. Not too shabby, if I say so myself....
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: 8F73EA59C9)
Yea I was kinda wondering about Sheila's costume change too. It's nice to see her in her classic outfit but I have to wonder whether it was a conscious change or just a way to make animation easier.
A lot of these kind of situations are often pondered as plot-specific but turn out to just be animation short-cuts (such as the dream version of Triana appearing in the wedding madness in Cremation Creek)
A lot of these kind of situations are often pondered as plot-specific but turn out to just be animation short-cuts (such as the dream version of Triana appearing in the wedding madness in Cremation Creek)
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: 4453D1431A)
Being as she didn't do much other than...sit down...I'd say it wasn't to make animation easier. :-) Triana slipped through because it was just a second long. This is the whole episode. Also, in Sea Cow, she started off in her new outfit and eventually changed to the classic one when it was time to take action. I think it's pretty clearly deliberate...she may be reverting back to her classic role in more ways than one.
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
You're right, I think. The ending of Sea Cow made me think of her classic uniform as her "serious" uniform. She can wear the new one when she's playing around, having fun, arching for entertainment...but when it's time to really bust heads, she's the pink pillbox all the way.
One thing's for sure, they're keeping us guessing...even about things as silly as costume changes. :-)
One thing's for sure, they're keeping us guessing...even about things as silly as costume changes. :-)
- by Josh Geller
- (unregistered id: 241A32BF89)
When you get punched in the forehead by someone who can throw a punch, you see the fist coming once. Then you don't see anything.
But Brock was suspending him in the air: that blow kills by snapping the head back, not by crushing the skull. So it is possible, though not likely, that Scott is still alive.
.
But Brock was suspending him in the air: that blow kills by snapping the head back, not by crushing the skull. So it is possible, though not likely, that Scott is still alive.
.
- by Josh Geller
- (unregistered id: 0FC01076B6)
Dr Girlfriend/Mrs The Monarch was close to leaving the Monarch. I thought that was what the Dr Girlfriend uniform was about.
Neither costume is particulary suitable for wear during hand to hand combat, in reality. But the realities of fighting seem a bit more distorted in a slightly more unrealistic direction than some of the other things in the Venture universe.
Did I hear JP and DH mention that they were pacifists once? That might explain it. I would like to recommend that they learn a bit more about the realities of violence. It is much easier to satirize something that you actually know about and understand.
.
Neither costume is particulary suitable for wear during hand to hand combat, in reality. But the realities of fighting seem a bit more distorted in a slightly more unrealistic direction than some of the other things in the Venture universe.
Did I hear JP and DH mention that they were pacifists once? That might explain it. I would like to recommend that they learn a bit more about the realities of violence. It is much easier to satirize something that you actually know about and understand.
.
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: 8F73EA59C9)
When was she close to leaving the Monarch? If anything, the Monarch's refusal to not arch Rusty only made her realize how passionate he is (in Tears of a Sea Cow) and now she seems totally on board with the whole idea - helping the Monarch find a guild loophole that will let him raid the Venture compound legitimately.
- by Steph
- (unregistered id: 21C4B127AE)
Absolute knockout episode! It's been great to see Jonas and his entourage take center stage over the last couple of episodes, and I loved how JJ's competence and sensibility are the very things that get him into trouble in this one when he can't quite accept the crazy rules of the arching system. The robot (Venturion? can't recall the name) did feel a bit out-of-nowhere, but the little touches like the Captain experiencing the G-forces of the arm, and the subtle callback to JJ's first appearance as he once again forms the head of a robot, made it work.
Count me in as another one who was getting worried that 21 and 24 actually were going to get themselves killed - but I guess they knew what they were talking about for once.
Count me in as another one who was getting worried that 21 and 24 actually were going to get themselves killed - but I guess they knew what they were talking about for once.
- by Tess
- (unregistered id: 4E429DF010)
That robot. I don't know. I thought it was a dumb joke in terms of just being a joke about how stupid shows like Power Rangers and the like can be.
But I thought the idea of Jonas Jr. Actually taking the time to BUILD that INCREDIBLY GAY robot was hilarious. It was like watching the "let's pretend we're successful" moment in Doctor is Sin, where I was having an almost UNRELATED laugh at the thought of Dr. Venture having to fix that moving side walk. As a character thing it worked really well. As a joke on Mecha Robot Team Shows, I thought it lacked a bit.
But I thought the idea of Jonas Jr. Actually taking the time to BUILD that INCREDIBLY GAY robot was hilarious. It was like watching the "let's pretend we're successful" moment in Doctor is Sin, where I was having an almost UNRELATED laugh at the thought of Dr. Venture having to fix that moving side walk. As a character thing it worked really well. As a joke on Mecha Robot Team Shows, I thought it lacked a bit.
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: 8F73EA59C9)
Clearly Doc (and presumably Jackson) like the idea of goofy Volton-style robots (lest you forget Mecha Shiva from Hank and Dean's fake flashback in Trial of the Monarch). I actually like that the joke isn't about the robot itself or the shows it represents, but just about the fact that Jonas HAS overachieved and built a defense system that is way too powerful for his would-be antagonists to contend with.
The best touch in 21 and 24's story was when they walked across the museum floor without tripping the alarm, followed by 1 who trips the alarm right away and proclaims "ah, come on!"
The best touch in 21 and 24's story was when they walked across the museum floor without tripping the alarm, followed by 1 who trips the alarm right away and proclaims "ah, come on!"
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
Truly excellent stuff. Full review coming to www.noisetosignal.org soonish.
Henchman 1 was great. The Monarch having a genuinely clever plan was great. Ned was great. The Lepidopterists were great.
This may be the episode of the show that covers the shortest time-frame, too. All of this probably happened within the span of an hour or two. That's interesting.
To me.
And...probably nobody else.
Henchman 1 was great. The Monarch having a genuinely clever plan was great. Ned was great. The Lepidopterists were great.
This may be the episode of the show that covers the shortest time-frame, too. All of this probably happened within the span of an hour or two. That's interesting.
To me.
And...probably nobody else.
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
Review up! www.noisetosignal.org
- by InActionMan
- (unregistered id: D7B1C846A9)
To me this episode was really all about BUREAUCRACY.
-Watch and Ward as Guild customer service not being able to help and being snotty and sarcastic on top of it.
- Having to read the fine print to avoid getting screwed by extra-vengeance clauses, overtime minutes, pre-payment penalties etc.
I think 21 and 24's knowledge of their invulnerability is a bit of meta humor but, I think their adventure with #1 (Scott) is really a commentary how often times bureaucracies don't reward the best and the brightest but, just the opposite. In bureaucracies it is often not the bold innovators, the risk takers or the smartest people that survive. It is the people who know how to keep their head down, push their mistakes off onto their subordinates and coworkers and take credit for other peoples work that the bureaucracy rewards and protects.
The only positive attribute that 21 and 24 could be given is loyalty. However, this is debatable as being with the Monarch is probably the best option available to them. 21 would have to go back to living with his mom and 24 would have to move in with his dad and his exwife/step mom. Also 21 harbors dreams of usurping the Monarch taking Dr. Girlfriend for his own and becoming "The Viceroy".
The best part for me was the JJ chastising the Monarch for using the word "retard". In one of the commentaries Doc mentions that his mother works with the mentally handicapped and gave him all kinds of shit for using the word "retard" in an episode from a previous season. A shout out to very obsessive fans such as myself.
I wasn't really feeling the whole Voltron thing either. Never much liked Voltron as a kid and I am too old to have been into Power Rangers.
I am excited for the big climax but, sad that there are only three episodes left.
-Watch and Ward as Guild customer service not being able to help and being snotty and sarcastic on top of it.
- Having to read the fine print to avoid getting screwed by extra-vengeance clauses, overtime minutes, pre-payment penalties etc.
I think 21 and 24's knowledge of their invulnerability is a bit of meta humor but, I think their adventure with #1 (Scott) is really a commentary how often times bureaucracies don't reward the best and the brightest but, just the opposite. In bureaucracies it is often not the bold innovators, the risk takers or the smartest people that survive. It is the people who know how to keep their head down, push their mistakes off onto their subordinates and coworkers and take credit for other peoples work that the bureaucracy rewards and protects.
The only positive attribute that 21 and 24 could be given is loyalty. However, this is debatable as being with the Monarch is probably the best option available to them. 21 would have to go back to living with his mom and 24 would have to move in with his dad and his exwife/step mom. Also 21 harbors dreams of usurping the Monarch taking Dr. Girlfriend for his own and becoming "The Viceroy".
The best part for me was the JJ chastising the Monarch for using the word "retard". In one of the commentaries Doc mentions that his mother works with the mentally handicapped and gave him all kinds of shit for using the word "retard" in an episode from a previous season. A shout out to very obsessive fans such as myself.
I wasn't really feeling the whole Voltron thing either. Never much liked Voltron as a kid and I am too old to have been into Power Rangers.
I am excited for the big climax but, sad that there are only three episodes left.
- by Tess
- (unregistered id: 4E429DF010)
I love you.
It's that kind of shit that really has me hooked on season three. The Bureaucracy of the Ventureverse is amazingly intriguing to me.
Thank you for putting it all so succinctly.
It's also interesting to look at in terms of what comes from real life... and we've been getting a lot of nerdy real-life stuff (conventions and things), but it's fun to see the Red Tape side of real life represented here. I imagine Doc was taking out a lot of frustration on Adult Swim's pencil pushing side.
It's that kind of shit that really has me hooked on season three. The Bureaucracy of the Ventureverse is amazingly intriguing to me.
Thank you for putting it all so succinctly.
It's also interesting to look at in terms of what comes from real life... and we've been getting a lot of nerdy real-life stuff (conventions and things), but it's fun to see the Red Tape side of real life represented here. I imagine Doc was taking out a lot of frustration on Adult Swim's pencil pushing side.
- by cgeye
- (unregistered id: 4D59C24CC4)
Remember Dr. Killinger's extensive reengineering of the Monarch's henchmen? How he instilled positive motivation and pride in their work?
I wonder if he was given a free hand to hire new staff -- and whether Henchman No. 1 earned that rank through merit -- a system The Monarch ignores but exists, nevertheless.
I wonder if there are a series of exams and promotional ladders that those two simply ignore, because they're happy where they are, and they have that special protected status 'fixed' people in a corporation get when they don't do anything notable enough to be fired about, but also know so much of the unspoken rules of the joint that others find them OK to work with. Aside from that combo of expendability and immortality, they just might be the soul of their group, even though other more qualified henchmen are champing at the bit to be the guy TM chooses for a bit of illegal clandestine arching... and titty-barring... and potato-skinning.
I wonder if he was given a free hand to hire new staff -- and whether Henchman No. 1 earned that rank through merit -- a system The Monarch ignores but exists, nevertheless.
I wonder if there are a series of exams and promotional ladders that those two simply ignore, because they're happy where they are, and they have that special protected status 'fixed' people in a corporation get when they don't do anything notable enough to be fired about, but also know so much of the unspoken rules of the joint that others find them OK to work with. Aside from that combo of expendability and immortality, they just might be the soul of their group, even though other more qualified henchmen are champing at the bit to be the guy TM chooses for a bit of illegal clandestine arching... and titty-barring... and potato-skinning.
- by Creepy Crooner
- (unregistered id: 8F73EA59C9)
Yes! Very well put. The bureaucracy subtext seems totally right on! I also watched the commentary where Doc was talking about being chastised by his mom for using the word "retard", and that Jonas scolding the Monarch for his usage of said "no-no word" (and The Monarch's subsequent damning of old-school villainous taunts) was an obvious reference to this.
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
Nowhere else that I'm aware, but go to flash.com and update your Macromedia Flash player. Adult Swim updated its video page and I got the unpleasant surprise last night. If you haven't updated Flash in a while, that's very likely the reason it won't play.
So go do that, and try again. Hope this helps.
So go do that, and try again. Hope this helps.
- by InActionMan
- (unregistered id: D7B1C846A9)
Tess
I am not sure that Doc is all that frustrated with AS bureaucracy as bureaucracy in general. Actually, I think AS is a little to willing to go with some pretty far out ideas in terms of shows. Stuff like Assy McGee, that Arch Angel show and Squidbillies have been both artistic and commercial failures. I think AS should give a little cash to the very talented VB collaborator Ben Edlund. Maybe even let him spin off a character from the Ventureverse and see what he does with it.
I am not sure that Doc is all that frustrated with AS bureaucracy as bureaucracy in general. Actually, I think AS is a little to willing to go with some pretty far out ideas in terms of shows. Stuff like Assy McGee, that Arch Angel show and Squidbillies have been both artistic and commercial failures. I think AS should give a little cash to the very talented VB collaborator Ben Edlund. Maybe even let him spin off a character from the Ventureverse and see what he does with it.
- by Tess
- (unregistered id: 6E1FF8A3E7)
Maybe I am projecting.
But bureaucracy in general is bad enough, I suppose.
And I think Ben Edlund should definitely write more episodes at least, seeing as Viva Los Muertos is probably my favorite episode of Venture Brothers, hands down. Spin off, perhaps. I think he could do wonderful things with an alternate universe in which Dr. Venture takes Killenger's offer, and arches Jonas. Seeing as it was his writing that saw Dr. Venture as close to a real mad scientist as he may ever get.
But bureaucracy in general is bad enough, I suppose.
And I think Ben Edlund should definitely write more episodes at least, seeing as Viva Los Muertos is probably my favorite episode of Venture Brothers, hands down. Spin off, perhaps. I think he could do wonderful things with an alternate universe in which Dr. Venture takes Killenger's offer, and arches Jonas. Seeing as it was his writing that saw Dr. Venture as close to a real mad scientist as he may ever get.
- by haux
- (unregistered id: 8B53C9237B)
the whole 2nd attack by The Monarch was faked.
that's why he was pulling up the thrones in the cocoon, and had to have a shitty ctr wheeled in front of him for the last taunt.
hence the "Capricorn Device", or whatever they called it. like from Capricorn One, the movie in the 70s about a faked Mars landing.
that's why he was pulling up the thrones in the cocoon, and had to have a shitty ctr wheeled in front of him for the last taunt.
hence the "Capricorn Device", or whatever they called it. like from Capricorn One, the movie in the 70s about a faked Mars landing.
- by Joe
- (unregistered id: 93E82EB5EA)
Genius...sheer genius. Provoking the egotistical JJ to unncessarily using perhaps the most powerful weapon at his disposal, far out proportion to what was required or sanctioned by the Guild.
JJ's arrogance will be Rusty's undoing!
I'm still finding it hard to believe that The Monarch could be so tactically and strategically brilliant at the same time...but hey, sometimes we all rise to the occasion.
And thanks for the Capricorn ref, I hadn't caught that the first time around.
I just wish there'd been more Hank and Dean episodes this season.
Ah well. Maybe when there's a cartoon called "The Venture Brothers", things will be different!
JJ's arrogance will be Rusty's undoing!
I'm still finding it hard to believe that The Monarch could be so tactically and strategically brilliant at the same time...but hey, sometimes we all rise to the occasion.
And thanks for the Capricorn ref, I hadn't caught that the first time around.
I just wish there'd been more Hank and Dean episodes this season.
Ah well. Maybe when there's a cartoon called "The Venture Brothers", things will be different!
- by Joey Michaels
- (unregistered id: AB5412E391)
- by Aquezio
- (unregistered id: 216F83717A)
The Voltron gag was fantastic! They include Ned in a useless clown/ice cream arm full of toys because they want him to feel good about himself. "We allow (encourage?) Ned to make his own desicions." It was a profound observation about the families of retarded people finding a balance between the risk involved with independence and and the affected member's ego. It's odd to me that no one else here seems to dig it, it had me on the floor!
I have to admit I was kinda hoping that 21 and 24 would die, or at least that #1 would survive. The jokes about the disturbing twitching Lara Croft does when she dies and being too inept to know where to be picked up at the end justify their continued existance, I suppose. I see where people are coming from being annoyed with their self-awareness, but I thought it worked pretty well in this one.
I have to admit I was kinda hoping that 21 and 24 would die, or at least that #1 would survive. The jokes about the disturbing twitching Lara Croft does when she dies and being too inept to know where to be picked up at the end justify their continued existance, I suppose. I see where people are coming from being annoyed with their self-awareness, but I thought it worked pretty well in this one.
- by Beastiegirl5
- (unregistered id: 494B66F10D)
Oh, what a fun episode- here's to the Monarch T-shirt I've been waiting for for weeks (fingers crossed..)
I have to say, one of my favorite lines was when the two Guild operatives were talking smack about JJ. "When you were a kid, did you ever make GI Joe hump Rainbow Bright?" "Yeah..." "He's what their kid would have looked like." Because everyone thinks JJ's a joke...
I have to say, one of my favorite lines was when the two Guild operatives were talking smack about JJ. "When you were a kid, did you ever make GI Joe hump Rainbow Bright?" "Yeah..." "He's what their kid would have looked like." Because everyone thinks JJ's a joke...
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 760CA431DC)
Beware! I got it and washed it just once. Normal detergent (no whiteners or brighteners or bleach alternatives) and no bleach, in recomended water temp and the logo faded to a pinkish-lilac color. Now, while I'd wear a red butterfly themed logo in public, I'm not sure about a pink one.
- by Sparky
- (unregistered id: CFFA6994F1)
- by That Guy! From the Internet!
- (unregistered id: C039DEBA32)
Interesting tidbit: the titles of Guild and OSI operatives are both references to the antagonists from the Dark City film. Guild operatives's collective name is the same as the Dark City antagonists' collective---Strangers---but individual OSI operatives have code names (Mr. Doe, Mr. Cardholder) that follow the Dark City Strangers' naming scheme (Mr. Book, Mr. Hand, Mr. Wall, etc.).
I think my favorite bizarre little gag was the Monarch sloooooowly leaning towards Dr. Mrs. the Monarch before asking, "Do you trust me?" Like, he's knows he has to get close to make his question dramatic, so he just sorta inches over while she's talking.
I think my favorite bizarre little gag was the Monarch sloooooowly leaning towards Dr. Mrs. the Monarch before asking, "Do you trust me?" Like, he's knows he has to get close to make his question dramatic, so he just sorta inches over while she's talking.
- by Tess
- (unregistered id: 4E429DF010)
That was really funny, and I don't know why exactly. I think it was just because it was a weird thing to throw in there. Why would JJ think he was saying that? How ridiculous.
I mean, I guess it was loud in there.
And quite often I felt like Jonas was yelling over the sound of his own theme music.... So maybe it was just part of that for me.
I mean, I guess it was loud in there.
And quite often I felt like Jonas was yelling over the sound of his own theme music.... So maybe it was just part of that for me.
- by Hammerstein
- (unregistered id: 8AE91594ED)
Dude, I knew the monarch could be competent if he set his mind to it! I think that that revelation really ties in with the theme of the rest of the series, that being very intelligent and could-be-successful people that are brought down by just one personality flaw or the nature of their upbringing.
- by cpc65
- (unregistered id: 760CA431DC)
Molotov Cocktease cosplay girl? During one of the commercial breaks in the episode on AS Sunday night, they showed a pic of a young lady dressed as Mol. I had the mute on and wasn't paying attention. By the time I unmuted, they went back to the show. What was the story on her? Was she at the SD Comicon? Would they not let her in due to the wee-bit low cut cleavage of the costume? I didn’t even get a very good look at her. Did she look Mol hot?
- by Phil
- (unregistered id: D3DAE242D1)
She didn't look bad. Hotter than some of the Molotovs I've seen.
You didn't miss much in terms of context...they were just photos from Comic Con, and she was the last one they showed. There was a caption, but I can't remember it...though I remember thinking it didn't make much sense. I had no idea what point they were trying to make.
Ah well. It was a good costume and she was pretty hot. That's all you really need to know and you know it already. :-)
You didn't miss much in terms of context...they were just photos from Comic Con, and she was the last one they showed. There was a caption, but I can't remember it...though I remember thinking it didn't make much sense. I had no idea what point they were trying to make.
Ah well. It was a good costume and she was pretty hot. That's all you really need to know and you know it already. :-)
- by Mike
- (unregistered id: 027D18FA77)
b{Okay Guys}b
Sorry to be a stick in the mud but I had to kill a bunch of comments. Yes, this weekend's episode of the show (Orb) has leaked, but I do not want any discussion of how to obtain it here. Obviously you can do whatever you want, and it should be fairly easy to figure out how to find it, but I can't really promote this sort of activity on the site, even indirectly.
I'll put up a discussion thread Friday and you can talk about it then (I'm not really going to allow any discussion here in case someone who hasn't seen it happens upon the comments, though if you want to simply say it's awesome or something that's fine).
Thanks for understanding.
Sorry to be a stick in the mud but I had to kill a bunch of comments. Yes, this weekend's episode of the show (Orb) has leaked, but I do not want any discussion of how to obtain it here. Obviously you can do whatever you want, and it should be fairly easy to figure out how to find it, but I can't really promote this sort of activity on the site, even indirectly.
I'll put up a discussion thread Friday and you can talk about it then (I'm not really going to allow any discussion here in case someone who hasn't seen it happens upon the comments, though if you want to simply say it's awesome or something that's fine).
Thanks for understanding.
- by chris
- (unregistered id: 97847E242E)
The weird thrown thingy that # 1 throws at Brock is a bola. From Wikipedia:
Bolas (from Spanish bola, "ball", also known as boleadoras) are a throwing weapon similar to the surujin made of weights on the ends of interconnected cords, designed to capture animals by entangling their legs. They are most famously used by the South American gauchos, but have been found in excavations of pre-Hispanic settlements, especially in Patagonia, where indigenous peoples used them to catch guanaco and ñandu.
Bolas (from Spanish bola, "ball", also known as boleadoras) are a throwing weapon similar to the surujin made of weights on the ends of interconnected cords, designed to capture animals by entangling their legs. They are most famously used by the South American gauchos, but have been found in excavations of pre-Hispanic settlements, especially in Patagonia, where indigenous peoples used them to catch guanaco and ñandu.
- by TSOX
- (unregistered id: 69B6871860)
The Lepidopterists will be back! They can be seen in one of the preview pictures in Jackson's journal that he posted around the fourth of July.
Also, Orb got leaked on to the internet a couple days ago but I'm fighting the urge to watch it, I don't even like watching VB on the fix, I really wait until Sunday.
Also, Orb got leaked on to the internet a couple days ago but I'm fighting the urge to watch it, I don't even like watching VB on the fix, I really wait until Sunday.
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