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  • by The Mysterious 'H'
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Anybody else get an Assisted Suicide feel from this episode? Like, we're never going to get the full story but something crazy definitely happened here?
  • 0
Jul. 1, 2013, 12:38am
  • by beb off-site
  • (unregistered id: A678E20E7F)
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I concur. Everything in the episode was planned to get the feds off Gathers' back. It's hard to know when they were lying and when they weren't.

I thought the first time Brock met Molotov he and Gathers were on assignment in Paris. And not this apparently earlier encounter at the 88 (?) Olympics.

Mol and Brocks scene in Operation PROM seemed pretty definitive that Brock was done with her and yet here she is, again.

How stupid is Gathers to hire a mercenary knowing that there will always be someone out there willing to pay more for her services that he can.

The sovereign isn't "really" Bowie thing proobably has something to do with toy marketing because previously there was a big music themed aspect to the Guild with people like The Big Bopper as council members,

If Tank-Top and the others were all suspected double-agents, why was Shore leave placed in charge of them? Is he a suspected double agent?

It was nice to see someone give The Nozzle what it deserved.
  • 2
Jul. 1, 2013, 8:04am
"I thought the first time Brock met Molotov he and Gathers were on assignment in Paris. And not this apparently earlier encounter at the 88 (?) Olympics."

I'd have to rewatch Assassinanny but as of right now I don't see much of an issue. That was Brock being trained, and the first time he met her. This was Brock on assignment, which presumably came afterward.

I haven't checked anything so I'm curious...did this episode specifically say it was his first time meeting her? Also, did either episode specify a year?

Again, not trying to nitpick, I honestly can't remember. I do know they referred to it as "The Goodwill Games" though, instead of the Olympics, so I think that's a different event.
  • 1
Jul. 1, 2013, 10:04am
I liked a lot about the episode, but you've identified some of my problems with it.

First, Hunter's decision to hire Molotov--even to dispose of a half-dozen dangerous double-agents--is insane. He could've left the job to Brock and Shoreleave, who are more than capable. And hiring her on a more permanent basis just to have an agent off the payroll? That's even crazier. I understand the desire to have a "deep-cover infiltrator" that O.S.I.'s enemies won't suspect, but I'm with Brock in believing that Molotov can't be trusted, no matter how much the O.S.I. is paying her.

Second, one of the show's running jokes is that the Guild is a haven for older rock stars. In addition to the Big Bopper and Buddy Holly, we've seen Klaus Nomi and Iggy Pop, and we've had references to Iman (Bowie's wife), "Eon" (a take on Brian Eno), and Eon's "warm jets." To me, the Bowie-isn't-the-Sovereign reveal undercuts much of what we've learned in the past.

I'm not sure if the Bowie-isn't-the-Sovereign thing is all about toy marketing. You're right that you can't use someone's image/likeness for commercial purposes without authorization, but marketing a toy that simply looks like Bowie would probably still run afoul of the rule. You can make limited use of someone's likeness for news purposes or parody, though, so the show could probably continue to use Bowie as it has in the past.

Whatever Doc's and Jackson's reasons, I wasn't thrilled about that development. But I love Bowie. I'm probably just disappointed by the possibility that he's not really an ultra-cool supervillain.
  • 1
Jul. 1, 2013, 10:13am
  • by Kait
  • (unregistered id: 015764730D)
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I actually think the Bowie-isn't-the-Sovereign thing might be massive misdirection, and that they may have just paved the way for Bowie himself to show up.

Completely hypothetical, but if they did get Bowie's attention/involvement, having him voice the Sovereign long-term could be problematic in the amount of time he'd need to invest. But voicing the real Bowie - who's pulling the Sovereign's strings - wouldn't require more of a commitment than a single episode and would leave Urbaniak's Sovereign free to run amok as they see fit.

Keep in mind that this entire post is coming from the tiny part of me that is both incurably optimistic and comprised entirely of lunacy, so take it with a boulder of salt.
  • 2
Jul. 1, 2013, 11:18am
There is also the possibility that Monstroso was lying about Bowie/Sovereign the whole time. It could be that his loyalty truly lies with Bowie. Or that he thinks the shapeshifter story is the truth, but that is simply a misdirection spread by Bowie himself. In the Venture-verse, no possibility is too implausible.
  • 2
Jul. 1, 2013, 11:27am
  • by Ghobbi
  • (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
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We saw the Council of Thirteen together on Phantom Limb's balcony in Shadowman 9, so we know that the Council not knowing each other's true identity is false.
  • 2
Jul. 1, 2013, 11:59am
  • by The Mysterious 'H'
  • Reply
We saw shadows. They could have been robots built to resemble the general shape of the council members but with no defining features otherwise. Though the fact that the rooms the councilmen are in during teleconference are close enough for Phantom Limb to crash two and the crucible chamber says that it wouldn't be hard for them to find out who's who. Might be more of a respectful privacy than for security's sake then.
  • 0
Jul. 1, 2013, 10:30pm
The thought that Monstroso was lying occurred to me, but Brock himself seemed certain that the Sovereign isn't really Bowie, so I dismissed it.

Now the idea that it's misdirection to set up an actual David Bowie cameo? That I hadn't thought of. If they can somehow get Bowie to do a guest voice on the show, I'll forgive my problems with undercutting previous plotlines!
  • 1
Jul. 1, 2013, 12:24pm
He said that he was testing Brock to make sure he wasn't a double agent. Him about to kill Molotov was proof of his loyalty, I guess. Probably the same for Shoreleave when he was up against Mol. Though I don't know why OSI double agents would not try to kill an apparent escaped enemy in order to prove their loyalty. My only thought there is that Molotov was valuable to the Guild for whatever reason so they wouldn't kill her but instead bring her (and Monstroso?) back. I need to watch it a second time. It's also not clear to me exactly when Hunter struck up that deal with Mol. Was it when she came onboard the ship or was it before the prom or somewhere in between?
  • 1
Jul. 1, 2013, 12:09pm
  • by Ghobbi
  • (unregistered id: 8A956CCA4E)
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Yeah, was the whole relationship with Monstroso a cover as well (at least as far as Mol was concerned)? Is that how Mol managed to pretend to be the rookie SPHINX member? In which case did Mo sacrifice the Blackhearts because Hunter had already got to her by that point? My brain aches.
  • 1
Jul. 1, 2013, 12:40pm
Maybe I missed the point, then. I thought Hunter was telling Brock that this strange episode had been a test (1) of Molotov's abilities; and (2) of O.S.I.'s defenses. As Molotov eliminated the known double-agents as per Hunter's orders, she passed. But as she ran riot all over the O.S.I. hover-base thing, O.S.I. failed and needs to beef up its internal defenses.

I didn't catch that the test had anything to do with Brock or Shoreleave. In fact, I thought Molotov's kicking of Shoreleave into the closet with the "premos" was to get him out of the way. She could then do her job without risking injury to Shoreleave. As for Brock, Hunter seemed genuinely panicked that Brock might kill Molotov. His frantic running/yelling leads me to think that Brock was never part of the test.
  • 3
Jul. 1, 2013, 8:32pm
  • by The Mysterious 'H'
  • Reply
That was my understanding as well. As for when, I'd say well before prom- Hunter vouched for the rookie in Pomp And Circuitry and I assume Mol was always the rookie, so he had some sort of plan in place with her. As for whether Mol had feelings for Monstroso, no idea- he probably treated her well, so she must have liked that much.
  • 1
Jul. 1, 2013, 10:40pm
Nope, you're exactly right. I just rewatched the end portion. However the point about when Mol was hired still stands.

Her being hired by OSI during SPHINX doesn't seem to make sense though, mainly because SPHINX had no involvement with OSI until Tresiter put Hunter in charge. So I would assume whatever she told Brock during "Prom" was accurate but then Hunter hired her sometime pretty recently, perhaps even during this episode. That's also why they needed her to be deceased, since she was technically escaped and there was no other way for her to be in the position they wanted her to be in.
  • 1
Jul. 2, 2013, 11:37am
  • by kalbmains
  • (unregistered id: 91C7690190)
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Maybe they didn't want her dead because they were trying to allow her to escape. After all, Tank Top did blow that hole through the door allowing Mol to retreat a bit.
  • 0
Jul. 2, 2013, 7:52pm

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