Comment Thread
- by Ticking-Glock
- (unregistered id: 83635DCD3E)
More Johnny Quest References (With Johnny Quest!!)
I didn't really watch a lot of Johnny Quest as a kid. Is Dr. Z supposed to be a reference to Dr. Zin?
Also, Johnny trying to rescue Dean? Great!
I almost have to feel guilty to think that new Dr. Mrs. The Monarch costume is hot..but geez, they went all Jessica Rabbit redoing her character design.
It does seem like they're at least trying to play to the whole "Brock's somebody's daddy" line that's been going on since season two. The logical conclusion would be that he's Dermitt's father, but they could always just be tugging our chain at this point.
So far there seems to be a lot more set-up in these early season episodes than there is humor. I don't mind, I mean, I miss the humor, but I'm still in love with the show.
And, totally unrelated to this episode: Does anyone else want to see if King Gorilla makes it into this season? He and the tiger guy (and the guy who looks like a scab) were the only jailed supervillains friends of The Monarch that haven't been killed yet.
I didn't really watch a lot of Johnny Quest as a kid. Is Dr. Z supposed to be a reference to Dr. Zin?
Also, Johnny trying to rescue Dean? Great!
I almost have to feel guilty to think that new Dr. Mrs. The Monarch costume is hot..but geez, they went all Jessica Rabbit redoing her character design.
It does seem like they're at least trying to play to the whole "Brock's somebody's daddy" line that's been going on since season two. The logical conclusion would be that he's Dermitt's father, but they could always just be tugging our chain at this point.
So far there seems to be a lot more set-up in these early season episodes than there is humor. I don't mind, I mean, I miss the humor, but I'm still in love with the show.
And, totally unrelated to this episode: Does anyone else want to see if King Gorilla makes it into this season? He and the tiger guy (and the guy who looks like a scab) were the only jailed supervillains friends of The Monarch that haven't been killed yet.
- by Roscoe
- (unregistered id: BD83BFB0C7)
Billy's a Virgin......He reluctantly admitted it in Escape to the house of mummies (part 2) Also, the reason Dermit's voice sounds like Billy's is because they are both voiced by DOC HAMMER. Doc even admits on the Season 2 Commentary he is a horible voice actor because all his characters are just his voice Pitched up or down. The kid sounded like Dr. Mrs. Monarch too, that doesn't mean he was hers.
My money is on the obvious choice, lets look at what we know:
-Unlike Billy, Brock has presumably had countless sexual conquests, which could have Easily lead to un unwanted/unknown pregnancy
-The kid was driving Brock crazy for some, unexplicable reason, (probably brock saw something about himself he recognized in the kid.
-Dermit had long blonde hair,
-He said his dad was Black-ops,
-Also, there was the not-so-subtle clue of Doc telling Brock to wait to pass judgement 'till HE had kids.
For all these reasons it seems pretty clear to me whose kid he is.
My money is on the obvious choice, lets look at what we know:
-Unlike Billy, Brock has presumably had countless sexual conquests, which could have Easily lead to un unwanted/unknown pregnancy
-The kid was driving Brock crazy for some, unexplicable reason, (probably brock saw something about himself he recognized in the kid.
-Dermit had long blonde hair,
-He said his dad was Black-ops,
-Also, there was the not-so-subtle clue of Doc telling Brock to wait to pass judgement 'till HE had kids.
For all these reasons it seems pretty clear to me whose kid he is.
- by warjoski
- (unregistered id: A70938E3C5)
Sorry, but I gotta disagree. Billy had amnesia for years. He may not know if he slept with someone. Also, Dermit probably wouldn't know much about his dad. Might be making up the Black Ops stuff as wish fulfillment. Both characters being voiced by Doc Hammer might be because they are supposed to be related or just to cut down on $ spent on voice actors. Dermit also shot Billy. That might mean something. And I agree with what someone else said farther down the chain: they were just making Brock too obvious a choice. It might not be Billy, though I think he's the best bet, but I don't think it's Brock.
- by Pirate Hippy
- (unregistered id: CA31821874)
Apart from shooting Billy (Dermit is probably a lousy shot like he is a lousy fighter: all talk, no substance) Dermit had ZERO interaction with Billy; he had lots of interaction with Brock. It is extremely clear from their conversation in the car that his mother sent Dermit to the day camp specifically to meet his father. Dermit made it a point to interact with Brock, and not with Billy or with any other adult.
The entire episode is about fatherhood. Notice Rusty telling Brock that he doesn't understand fatherhood; notice Orpheus telling Brock pretty much the same thing. Notice how easily Dermit pushes Brock's buttons (as a child would do to a parent). Notice how Dermit is precisely the kind of child Brock would not want (disappointed father syndrome). Notice how Dermit is big and blond and looks a bit like Brock.
How much clearer could it be? If this is a huge fake out, then that's terrible writing. One or two false clues are sometimes excusable, but not this many. If it isn't Brock then there's either something very obvious we are all missing, or Jackson Publick and Doc Hammer are getting really lazy.
The entire episode is about fatherhood. Notice Rusty telling Brock that he doesn't understand fatherhood; notice Orpheus telling Brock pretty much the same thing. Notice how easily Dermit pushes Brock's buttons (as a child would do to a parent). Notice how Dermit is precisely the kind of child Brock would not want (disappointed father syndrome). Notice how Dermit is big and blond and looks a bit like Brock.
How much clearer could it be? If this is a huge fake out, then that's terrible writing. One or two false clues are sometimes excusable, but not this many. If it isn't Brock then there's either something very obvious we are all missing, or Jackson Publick and Doc Hammer are getting really lazy.
- by Pirate Hippy
- (unregistered id: CA31821874)
Yes I know Dermott briefly mocks Rusty on the tour train/cart, but it does not faze Rusty in the slightest and Dermott makes no further attempt to talk with Rusty. He talks to absolutely no other adults at all, apart from Rusty and Brock. His mother sent him there to meet his father; we see Brock and Dermott conversing at least twice, including the polaroid of a happy Brock "consoling" Dermott. What else are we supposed to think? False clues are supposed to be a lot more subtle than this, people. Get a grip.
- by Pirate Hippy
- (unregistered id: CA31821874)
Not my writing but all valid points:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermott_Fictel
***At the end of the episode "The Buddy System", Dermott's mother comes by with a car to pick him up. Dermott and his mother seem to have agreed to come to the camp for the sole purpose of meeting his possible father, and perhaps suggests Dermott has suffered emotionally as a result of not seeing his father, which is evident in his aggressive attitude toward Brock (accusing him of "walking away" when Brock turned around to avoid a confrontation).
Dermott himself mentions in passing that, at least he has been lead to believe, his father was "some Black Ops special agent", which could possibly be describing Brock's past service in the OSI.
In addition, when Brock was calming down Dr. Venture after his outburst at Hank, Dr. Venture told him, "just wait until you have kids of your own," possibly foreshadowing that the reason Dermott is able to get under Brock's skin so easily is that he is his son.
Brock is seemingly oblivious to having fathered any children, and as such is unaware of his possible relation to Dermott; throughout the episode, he is trying to come up with ways to retaliate against Dermott's disrespectful attitude without actually coming to blows with him, as his code of ethics prevents him from harming children. Dermott's provocations may have been a way to "test" Brock, however, as he and his mother have the following exchange when he is picked up from the Venture Compound:
"Dermott's mother: Dermott sweetie, did you meet him?"
"Dermott: Yeah, he was okay. You sure he's my real father?"
Despite their rough treatment of one another, Dermott, a rebellious boy himself, may take pride in knowing that his supposed father is a big, muscular tough guy. Even so, there's a possibility that Dermott could have been talking about another adult at the camp, i.e. Sgt. Hatred.***
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermott_Fictel
***At the end of the episode "The Buddy System", Dermott's mother comes by with a car to pick him up. Dermott and his mother seem to have agreed to come to the camp for the sole purpose of meeting his possible father, and perhaps suggests Dermott has suffered emotionally as a result of not seeing his father, which is evident in his aggressive attitude toward Brock (accusing him of "walking away" when Brock turned around to avoid a confrontation).
Dermott himself mentions in passing that, at least he has been lead to believe, his father was "some Black Ops special agent", which could possibly be describing Brock's past service in the OSI.
In addition, when Brock was calming down Dr. Venture after his outburst at Hank, Dr. Venture told him, "just wait until you have kids of your own," possibly foreshadowing that the reason Dermott is able to get under Brock's skin so easily is that he is his son.
Brock is seemingly oblivious to having fathered any children, and as such is unaware of his possible relation to Dermott; throughout the episode, he is trying to come up with ways to retaliate against Dermott's disrespectful attitude without actually coming to blows with him, as his code of ethics prevents him from harming children. Dermott's provocations may have been a way to "test" Brock, however, as he and his mother have the following exchange when he is picked up from the Venture Compound:
"Dermott's mother: Dermott sweetie, did you meet him?"
"Dermott: Yeah, he was okay. You sure he's my real father?"
Despite their rough treatment of one another, Dermott, a rebellious boy himself, may take pride in knowing that his supposed father is a big, muscular tough guy. Even so, there's a possibility that Dermott could have been talking about another adult at the camp, i.e. Sgt. Hatred.***
- by DeimosMasque
- (unregistered id: DD74F4CF47)
"Dermott: Yeah, he was okay. You sure he's my real father?"
See that's the line that makes me think Brock ISN'T his real father and Dr. Venture is. For a kid who thinks he's a bad ass but really just Dave Matthews, and thinks his dad is a Black Ops agent, Dr. Venture is the biggest let down for his "Real Father" ever.
See that's the line that makes me think Brock ISN'T his real father and Dr. Venture is. For a kid who thinks he's a bad ass but really just Dave Matthews, and thinks his dad is a Black Ops agent, Dr. Venture is the biggest let down for his "Real Father" ever.
- by hank
- (unregistered id: B4B4ADC2E7)
that "yeah he was okay" threw me too. but think about it - a dave-matthews esque wanna-be-tough-guy would never show his real feelings. it would have been completely out of character for him to say
"thats him!!? HOLY WHAT A BAD ASS"
passiveness is a pretty big staple of the wanna-be-tough crowd.
"thats him!!? HOLY WHAT A BAD ASS"
passiveness is a pretty big staple of the wanna-be-tough crowd.
- by Pirate Hippy
- (unregistered id: CA31821874)
While the Dr. Venture as Dermott's father theory is less silly than some of the other theories (ie Billy, Hank, etc as the father), it still is unlikely.
Dermott has grown up without his father. He's going to have a lot of issues with his real father for not being there for him. Don't expect him to heap praises on him, even if he were (like Brock) "god-like".
Besides, Dermott is your typical punk-ass teenager who mocks and denigrates EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. If he says about his real father "yeah, he was okay", that's high praise indeed, coming from that source.
Context is everything.
Dermott has grown up without his father. He's going to have a lot of issues with his real father for not being there for him. Don't expect him to heap praises on him, even if he were (like Brock) "god-like".
Besides, Dermott is your typical punk-ass teenager who mocks and denigrates EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. If he says about his real father "yeah, he was okay", that's high praise indeed, coming from that source.
Context is everything.
- by hank
- (unregistered id: 992BA4FF2B)
thank you for expanding on my point - i forgot the teenager aspect.
again, context is everything. if nothing else dh&jp have shown that they know this. who else in the venture universe could have dropped the line: "if you didn't look like a suicidegirl" or w/e it is. still mentioning suicidegirls? classic.
again, context is everything. if nothing else dh&jp have shown that they know this. who else in the venture universe could have dropped the line: "if you didn't look like a suicidegirl" or w/e it is. still mentioning suicidegirls? classic.
- by warjoski
- (unregistered id: A70938E3C5)
I'm not sure I understand why it would be lazy writing. Most mystery stories are loaded with red herrings and false clues. And it's not like they haven't used devices like that before. As to your point about Dermott briefly mocking Dr. Venture, he really only briefly mocks Brock too, doesn't he? He mocks him at the judo demonstration. I can't think of when else he seeks Brock out. Brock actually seeks him out for revenge. The picture occurs after Brock watches Dean smack Dermott up. Nothing about that really indicates to me that Dermott is giving Brock any special attention.
Maybe it's Billy. Maybe it's Brock. In any case, I don't think it's all that clear. The writers of this show like to twist things. I don't think the situation is as obvious as you are implying it is.
Maybe it's Billy. Maybe it's Brock. In any case, I don't think it's all that clear. The writers of this show like to twist things. I don't think the situation is as obvious as you are implying it is.
- by Pirate Hippy
- (unregistered id: CA31821874)
I can only shake my head at comments like yours. It's obvious why JP and DH are writers, and you are not.
"I'm not sure I understand why it would be lazy writing."
Because lazy writers give you a whole bunch of false clues, and no/few correct clues, and count on their "surprise" carrying the story. That's lazy writing. Better writers have an interlocking pattern of clues that hang together as a story and keep the red herrings to a minimum.
There are a lot of incredibly bad and LAZY mystery writers - and please note not only are JP and DH not bad or lazy writers, they don't write mystery novels or mystery stories, either. They write comedy and satire. Any resemblance to mystery writing on their part is strictly accidental or for the purposes of parody.
Nowhere have JP and DH completely pulled crap out of nowhere while throwing a boatload of false clues at us to try to trick us into jumping to the wrong conclusion. There have been a few minor false clues, but they have never been part of a larger interlocking pattern of complimentary clues, they were always stand alone throwaway lines, like Billy's ridiculous baboon uterus rumor mongering.
"Maybe it's Billy. Maybe it's Brock. In any case, I don't think it's all that clear."
If you don't think it's clear, I really have to wonder what show you think you've been watching. How much clearer does it have to be before it gets through to you?
Could it be a surprise and be someone besides Brock? Sure - but it WOULD be a surprise, because ALL of the evidence points to Brock, ie, it's pretty f_cking clear to anyone who is paying attention. If it's not Brock, it's precisely a surprise because it is pretty clear from this episode that it is supposed to be Brock - that's what we're MEANT to think.
You can't have it both ways - if it isn't clear it's Brock, then there's no way you can argue "it can't be Brock because it is too obvious". If on the other hand "it can't be Brock because it is too obvious", than it IS clear it is Brock based on the evidence from this episode, which JP and DH are going to entirely ignore/subvert in future episodes, ie you're arguing that JP and DH are going to go against their past inclinations and completely bullshit us on a major plot element.
But it can't be both "unclear" and a "surprise" at the same time. If it's clear it's Brock, it will be a surprise if it is not him. It it's not clear it's Brock, then none of our conversation so far makes any sense.
In the past, JP and DH's surprises have never been directly contrary to all the evidence they have given us prior to the revelation. That's what's going to have to happen if it turns out to be someone besides Brock. It could happen - but JP and DH are going to have to pull one mighty big rabbit out of a hat in order to make it work.
"I'm not sure I understand why it would be lazy writing."
Because lazy writers give you a whole bunch of false clues, and no/few correct clues, and count on their "surprise" carrying the story. That's lazy writing. Better writers have an interlocking pattern of clues that hang together as a story and keep the red herrings to a minimum.
There are a lot of incredibly bad and LAZY mystery writers - and please note not only are JP and DH not bad or lazy writers, they don't write mystery novels or mystery stories, either. They write comedy and satire. Any resemblance to mystery writing on their part is strictly accidental or for the purposes of parody.
Nowhere have JP and DH completely pulled crap out of nowhere while throwing a boatload of false clues at us to try to trick us into jumping to the wrong conclusion. There have been a few minor false clues, but they have never been part of a larger interlocking pattern of complimentary clues, they were always stand alone throwaway lines, like Billy's ridiculous baboon uterus rumor mongering.
"Maybe it's Billy. Maybe it's Brock. In any case, I don't think it's all that clear."
If you don't think it's clear, I really have to wonder what show you think you've been watching. How much clearer does it have to be before it gets through to you?
Could it be a surprise and be someone besides Brock? Sure - but it WOULD be a surprise, because ALL of the evidence points to Brock, ie, it's pretty f_cking clear to anyone who is paying attention. If it's not Brock, it's precisely a surprise because it is pretty clear from this episode that it is supposed to be Brock - that's what we're MEANT to think.
You can't have it both ways - if it isn't clear it's Brock, then there's no way you can argue "it can't be Brock because it is too obvious". If on the other hand "it can't be Brock because it is too obvious", than it IS clear it is Brock based on the evidence from this episode, which JP and DH are going to entirely ignore/subvert in future episodes, ie you're arguing that JP and DH are going to go against their past inclinations and completely bullshit us on a major plot element.
But it can't be both "unclear" and a "surprise" at the same time. If it's clear it's Brock, it will be a surprise if it is not him. It it's not clear it's Brock, then none of our conversation so far makes any sense.
In the past, JP and DH's surprises have never been directly contrary to all the evidence they have given us prior to the revelation. That's what's going to have to happen if it turns out to be someone besides Brock. It could happen - but JP and DH are going to have to pull one mighty big rabbit out of a hat in order to make it work.
- by Will
- (unregistered id: 862A6B5101)
Dermott also stares at Brock as he's riding away on that little tour bus or whatever it's called after the Judo demonstration. It would be weird if his father, Dr. Venture was at the front of the bus (That's what I'm calling it for now) and he ignored him to continue looking at some random guy.
I think it's much more likely that he's letting his gaze linger while he's soaking in and contemplating his first interaction with his father.
I think it's much more likely that he's letting his gaze linger while he's soaking in and contemplating his first interaction with his father.
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"Hostile Makeover" 3%
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